Top 5 Producers You Don’t Buy Anymore, and Why

WINE TALK
181

David and Marcus nailed the description of the Hexamer style. It’s in a richer, Nahe style than you’re going to get from Mosel and Saar wines.

If you only like leaner, racier Rieslings in the style of Julian Haart, Falkenstein, or Ludes (all of which I love), Hexamer is not for you. It’s a richer idiom, but I would say that is true of the Nahe in general.

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182

I’m not sure I’d attribute the Trimbach issues to them, every bottle I’ve purchased overseas and brought back has aged as it should. I’ve had some nasty ones but they were all purchased in the US.

183

It’s not just a US problem. And it started at latest in 1994.

184

While the non-three tier bottles are better, it’s not at all a panacea. Most of my CSH was sourced in Alsace, and 6 of 8 bottles (1997-2001) were premoxed.

185

the answer to falkenstein?

186

I’m not afraid of RS. Much to the detriment of my over stuffed cellar I like lots of different styles.

187

Given the best guess understanding of premox, that’s not surprising. Less handling and shorter transport is going to result in fewer bottles with issues. The borderline bottles/corks that might be OK, can be torn apart with a half a world of transport and (mis)handling.

188

Agreed. I do believe that Trimbach suffered from some very poor handling in the import and distribution tiers.

189

Gonon
Baudry
Roilette
Bedrock
Donnhoff

Could probably rattle off 5-10 more but these are for sure the top ones that I buy single year, some in case+ quantities. I drink these wines quite often, some on a monthly basis.

190

Hexamer, 15 years ago, made some pretty zippy wines, acid-wise. Haven’t had one in quite a while.

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191

Dunno about the bulk market, but definitely agree on dropping most napa wineries after the 23 vintage. I might stick with 4 to 5 consistently after 23. Price and cellar space are the main factors.

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192

Agreed. I used to buy them here in NZ but stopped completely due to unacceptable premox issues and also complete denial of any issues from the domaine,

193

New member to this group, but I recently left Ridge for the same reasons noted above - basically winemaking complacency IMO. I am now tracing the vineyard sources and have a few coming in the fall. Looking forward to see the differences.

194

Thanks to both you and David.

Very affordable wines from the winery direct.

Sounds interesting and while I enjoy the leaner Mosel wines I’m love tasting and drinking wide though with a general preference for lower sweetness levels.

What about the higher end dry “Riesling No. 1 trocken – Meddersheimer Rheingrafenberg?

195

I am still in an active collecting phase, but have stopped buying/dropped off lists from those with poor customer service (either to me or have read about). Harlan is so far the only one I’ve dropped due to allocation list price; I’m close to dropping Promontory but still am enamored with the experience I receive when visiting.

196

To address the OP:

  1. Bedrock - used to buy in volume, and mule bottles for some of my local wine friends. Some of them have lost interest and I’m finding that I’m just not as excited about them as I once was, or in comparison to
  2. Pax - I still purchase a couple Sonoma Hillsides annually from a local source, but feel these wines are best on release and have not been happy with the way my bottles have aged. Used to buy the rose in volume as well but I think they stopped making it.
  3. Carlisle - similar story to bedrock, and now no longer producing. I still plan to pick up a couple bottles/year through winebid
  4. Ultramarine - see thread :wink: I’ve been underwhelmed with the quality and response on this issue of late
  5. PYCM - still love the wines, but the pricing has gone up. I am seeking them out but rarely see “deals” for this producer.
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197

  1. Spottswoode, price.

  2. Alpha Omega, price.

  3. Rhys, price and environmental awareness.

  4. Diamond Creek, price (!)

  5. First Growth Bordeaux, price. They know who they are.

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198

In no particular order:

  1. Ulysse Collin - can’t get anymore, and not sure I’d pay the price if I could.
  2. Cedric Bouchard - ditto.
  3. Ramonet whites - have seemingly become less tense and energetic and in some vintages, downright flabby for me. Have been disappointed more than I’ve been thrilled, so I’m out.
  4. Egly-Ouriet - teetering here because I still buy some of the Grand Cru and the occasional bottle of VP, but I’m starting to get priced out. The stuff below Grand Cru isn’t worth it at all for me.
  5. Chantereves - stylistic change in the wrong direction (in my opinion).
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199

what direction is that for Chantereves?

200

I posted this awhile back -

Truthfully, I was once quite taken by Chanterêves when I first encountered them in 2019ish but when I’ve had them in recent years I find them lacking. It appears the winemaking philosophy/dogma has taken precedence over making good wines; if you’re producing ~12% ABV wines in 2018, for example, you’re just not taking what the year is giving you & and you’re straight-up missing the vintage. Like a lot of new-school Burgundy these days, I find the reds to be lacking in concentration/depth and super stem-influenced without the stuffing to carry them. A lot of the whites seem to have a grassy, herbaceous/chamomile quality that I assume comes from some length of skin contact without much of the minerality and depth I associate with white Burgundy.

I’ll add that some of the whites lean weirdly tropical/lactic for me in way I don’t really like.