It’s always a challenger here on the board when ‘best ofs within CA’ come up, and folks tend to lean towards one region without any knowledge of others. I will say as far as the general public goes, they are probably more familiar with the pinots out of Sonoma in general, and probably Russian River in particuluar. The marketing of those wines, and their proximity to SF and Napa, have historically made them easier to find and more heavily reviewed.
There are exceptions to that rule - and I guess I am looking at the pinot market as a whole - not necessarily the ‘geeky’ stuff we lean on here.
“There are plenty of excellent producers and sites in other parts of the state”
“Historically, I saw all these high-end OR PNs priced higher than almost anything out of CA.” - Easy to back up.
“Now, prices are so all-over-the-place.”
Then, you go making an ignorant broad statement about “California”. Again, guess which region of CA has some of the lowest prices, while also being very terroir-driven and low intervention?
And again, I’m talking about batting average for a region. Many regions are too over-planted, with far too many inferior sites. Many regions have unfortunate style expectations, despite benchmark wines that were very much not that given style.
What producer? I can only think of Drew as mentioned here and with that price tag. I liked the wines back in 2013-15 or so but they started to run together to me, such that the basic Fog Eater would be my pick there over the single vineyards.
I’d take Baxter, Witching Stick, Phillips Hill, Knez, and Anthills AV Pinots as my favorites. Toulouse in the cooler vintages. Those are all made by people who live and work there year in and out (PH and Knez did too but are gone now) except for Anthill. They all have very reasonable prices for the quality too ($50 for single vineyard).
I’m not as much as a Santa Cruz Mountain nut for Pinot as Wes, but I’m close.
I am a Mount Eden fanatic, but if there is a better Pinot Noir vineyard in California than Trout Gulch, please let me know (especially if the wines are available, especially if they’re available under triple digits).
Ceritas and Alfaro make great wine here. I haven’t had Farm Cottage but have heard good things.
I really should know better than to argue with a fool on the internet but it’s a cold night in the Midwest and I’m bored so here we go…
I made one and only one argument with you. Your assertion that Oregon PN is more expensive than California Pinot Noir is not correct. You literally say “easy to back up”. Ok do it then. Again GO TO ONLINE RETAILERS. Check on KL Wine. Search for Cali PN. Then search for OR PN. Ill wait…
See how much more expensive Cali PN is? Marcassin and Kosta Browne are both listed at $300 per bottle. Most expensive OR PN? Eyrie and Beaux Freres at $200. Do you understand how math works? $200 is LESS than $300.
As for everything else, I’m not really sure who you’re arguing with. I adore many producers from Santa Cruz mountains. Rhys, Kutch and Ceritas would all be in my top 5. I was just adding on that there are other producers working in other regions of California that I prefer more than my fifth favorite from SC. Littorai being an excellent example. California is such a massive state with incredible diversity. Narrowing your favorites down to one region is like having all your favorite Burgundy producers be from Chambolle-Musigny. You can, but what’s the fun in that?
You really have some serious reading comprehension issues. I quoted for you what I actually said, which is very much not what you claimed. You still missed it and repeated your jaw-droppingly offbase claim. So, for a third time, and I’ll help you out by emboldening what you seem to have trouble reading:
“HISTORICALLY, I saw…”
Get it? That’s back when you wouldn’t see any CA PNs over $80 and there were several overly oaky Oregon Pinots above that.
“NOW…”
Jim put it well. There are excellent Oregon winemakers (including him) who’ve identified and tuned in some great sites and put incredible effort into their winemaking, which is not gimmicky makeup-on-a-pig in the least bit. When you have a great site, it’s best to let it show. Good OR PN is nothing new. Pretentious OR PN is nothing new. Having a bunch of winemakers there that thrill me is pretty new. But, again, like Sonoma, if I pick up some random WV bottle, I’m probably not going to be impressed.
No real anger from me, all in fun. This argument is pretty low stakes in the whole scheme of things.
I don’t have direct data in front of me the way I do with current pricing, but I am surprised by the assertion that “HISTORICALLY” there were Oregon wines that were more expensive than their California brethren. I’ve never found that to be true in my memory of buying wines (about 15 years), so maybe that predates me. I mostly recall cult producers from California who demanded much higher prices historically (Williams-Seylam, Marcassin, Seasmoke, etc).
Not to cause too much thread drift (and I’m willing to create a separate thread about this), but what would you say are the Top 10 producers in Oregon?
I really have no idea–I don’t drink too much domestic pinots, but I have friends who love Oregon pinots, and I would like to learn more and the different styles of pinot that can be found there.
I, like most folks here, am really saying these are the producers I like best.
And you are quite correct; ripeness is not first on my list when assessing my favs,
That said, I will also say that DdlC Pinots are the only CA Pinots I will search for or pay a premium price for - demonstrating just how good I think they are (for the style).
After many years of staying away from domestic wine, I find myself craving a good west coast PN every once in a while. I still don’t drink a lot of it, but every once in a while I stumble across a bottle of PN with a few years of age and really enjoy them. Recent examples include Arnot Roberts, Kutch, and Williams Selyem.