I don’t think that’s what is going on here. The wines showed exactly as OP expected and were in character. It’s just not the character he likes.
So, more of a case of asking a chamber music fan to attend a Kanye performance and give a rating?
I have no problem with the OP hating the wines or the negative notes on wines that I like or would expect to like; glad to see some diversity of opinion. As others have noted, different people have different preferences. As for the blind tasting part of it - I like blind tasting as much as the next guy or gal, but let’s remember, correctly IDing things blind simply means that the taster is able to recognize certain things about the wine - it doesn’t make them better at appraising the wine. I’m not one bit surprised that David recognized these various producers whose wines he mostly hates - most of us probably do recognize wines we hate if they exhibit the characteristics that make us hate them.
So let’s have a serious discussion about this. Based on some threads of David’s that I’ve been in and out of, as I understand it his overarching thesis to this group of producers (most of them, anyway) is that he believes that California terroirs do not suit this style of low-alcohol, cooler climate, sometimes whole cluster in part, CA pinot noir. I’ve been willing to entertain that and certainly I’ve had pinots from some producers in this category that have missed the mark for me. The part I can’t work out is how his tastes seem to have a fair amount of overlap with mine when it comes to burgs, but can be so different when it comes to CA pinots in this category, or how he can think that Littorai is often terrific and all of these other producers (which are different, but in most ways not so different in overall profile) are awful. I think I’ve had the Kutch SC recently and thought it was pretty darn good, and I’ve had Copain Kisers (2007 and 2009, both En Haut and En Bas) that I’ve thought were absolutely gorgeous wines. I think I chalk it up mostly to David’s extreme dislike of stems (and others like Richard Jennings have similar aversion), but given that he likes Dujac sometimes etc. maybe it’s just something else about the expression of this style in CA pinot. Either way, unfortunately, this idiosyncrasy in his palate/preferences renders his notes on these useless to me (and mine probably useless to him too). I’d have to say I’ve considered his thesis but for my palate, find little evidence to support it - too many excellent wines that I’ve tasted from this group of wineries.
No, I quite like some CA pinot. I am on the Littorai and Fogarty mailing lists.
It’s all about the bigger question “What is good?” isn’t it? I think it’s refreshing to hear some strong contrary (to the general flow) opinion now and then. Shakes the discussion up a bit. Negativity gets a bad rap these days.
CA Pinot has always under-preformed IMHO. Nothing surprising here.
Are you new here? ![[snort.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/b/bdc3944606213c4dca6c1169cf0a166c8bc4f8c9.gif "snort.gif"){kind=small}
That O is not so H.
Yeah, that type of level-headed thinking is completely uncalled for and not what we expect of our board members.
Seeing some of the responses to David’s notes remind me why I stopped posting tasting notes. It’s just not worth the bullshit you have to deal with when you try to give an honest opinion about the wine you tasted. Hope you learned a lesson there David.
This thread is amazing.
What did people do before the internet!??!?
That artificial sweetness is very distinct, though I only get it in some of the wines that include stems. A factor of stem ripeness, percentage whole clusters, vinification- I have no idea. Have you noticed it in wines from Burgundy?
Probably just kept it local.
Sure, in some of the heavy whole cluster wines - I get it in Chandon de Brialles, in leaner vintages at Bize. I find it tends to be less prominent, sometimes fading away altogether, in riper burgs like the Arlot 1ers, Dujac, etc.
Bothered the piss out of family & friends. Now we get to poke digital sticks at strangers and enjoy the flaming train wreck that ensues. I’m told there’s also other beneficial uses for the internet but I don’t believe in Bigfoot.
And his lowest score is 80-81. People would go ape shit if I posted my notes from my blind tasting group. There’s 51 degrees on the 100 point scale, and I’m not afraid to use them.
Not David, but I’m pretty good at picking out whole cluster. I tend to find it more appealing when done in Burgundy than in California, though I tried an example today from California that I really liked. For some reason, (for my palate) stem inclusion seems to bring out extra sweetness in a wine’s fruit, which is why I prefer it in Burgundy. Even in lower alc% California Pinots, the fruit tends to come across a little more jammy, and the flowery greenness of stems can sometimes seem very awkward.
Jim, I think I follow what you and Rama seem to be referring to. Personally I think Joe Davis’ Arcadian pinots are among the most deft in California in terms of integrated stem inclusion, but I’m not sure if that’s a result of the Santa Barbara/Santa Rita Hills sites he uses, or the fact that he releases his wines with more time in bottle.
agreed, he uses stem but it’s probably the least “stemmy” out of the stem inclusion pinots. They are also less candied than a lot of the new wave pinots from SCM and the like.
Wasn’t there a thread recently asking for more tasting notes?