Chris, John, Marcus. et al. - if you hated Italian food, would you spend $65 and a night to go to Lasagnafest? It seems David would. 
Energy, time, and money spent on something you KNOW you don’t like is a waste unless you’re a negative person and enjoy complaining.
Exactly.
He’s Bizarro Shin.
I don’t have control over what we taste in the blind group. I can certainly suggest bottles - and I did - but I’m only one of 8-10 voices. I drink what’s put in front of me.
I appreciate the notes and the spirit in which they were posted. I’ve taken issue with many of David’s posts in the past, many of which personally insulting to various people. But this is not one of those posts. There’s more actual value in the OP to this community than 95% of the topics posted here, and there’s nary an insult in sight.
We have the same argument every time someone posts negative notes. “Why bother posting negative notes?” “Are you just a bitter person? Wine is supposed to be ‘fun’.” “Why post notes on wines you know you don’t like?” Predictable and no more compelling the 80th time. People are free to post or not post their notes. I see no argument whatsoever for trying to convince someone not to post notes that are not made up.
Moreover, the comments in this thread mostly don’t even apply in this case. As David noted, he likes Littorai enough to be on the mailing list and order wines direct. This was a blind tasting from an organized tasting group. He brought a bottle of Littorai. I highly doubt he expected to be disappointed by it. I’d say he has put his money where his mouth is.
As a drinker of many of these wines and knowing something about David’s tasting group, I think these notes (especially if we can seek John’s and others’ notes for some context) are worth taking seriously. These are expensive wines and for all of the whining about negative notes, there aren’t a lot of tasting notes from blind tastings involving these wines, positive OR negative. If you think David’s tasting group was negatively pre-disposed, please feel free to organize your own blind tasting and see how it comes out. And by all means, please post the results, positive or negative.
I buy a lot of Rhys. I buy some Littorai and would buy more if it was easier for me to source in Maine. I don’t like Copain and after recently trying Kutch am not inclined to buy more. My tastes are different from David’s. In particular, I often like stem-inclusion. David’s notes are not going to change what I buy on their own. But the fact that his entire group was unimpressed by the lineup is a good wake-up call for me to continue to evaluate my buying and revisit my priors every once in awhile.
Bingo!
I don’t drink a lot of California pinots, but I’m very interested by what people are doing with fruit from cooler areas, and I don’t feel the need to compare these to Burgundy (pretty pointless). A lot of people are moving in a direction I like with pinot in California. David drinks a fair number and speaks with some enthusiasm about some. So this was not an event set up for hating.
That said, these wines were mostly boring – much less interesting than a less well curated tasting we did (organized by me) several years ago.
Different perspectives are always welcome.
It’s impressive that David was able to correctly identify all 8 wines but I’m confused as to what relevance that has in the tasting note. If anything, it detracts from his perspective on the actual wine. If someone is so familiar with a wine that they can easily identify it blind, then why partake in a tasting knowing you will absolutely hate it? It just comes across as an outlandish display of hubris. He already knows he despises the wines yet it is willing to endure a bit of palate pain so he can write a post touting his tasting prowess.
Different strokes I guess.
Ditto. I very much doubt that people went into this tasting expecting to dislike the wines. He even says that he has liked the Littorai much more on other occasions. I’m just glad he gave his opinions on the wines without making wild guesses as to the terrible character of the winemakers or the retailers who sold them.
And while I love most Rhys wines the Alpines have consistently been my least favorite (much to the puzzlement of several friends who love them). So I can sort of see that reaction.
a) he didn’t know what wines the other people were bringing
b) you learn about wine even drinking ones you dislike. and who knows? your palate might change with the years
c) I defy anyone to refrain from boasting just a little bit about success at blind identification. I’m one of the absolute worst at it in my blind tasting group so on the rare occasions I nail something (usually a wine I’m really familiar with) I’ll mention it.
Mr. Klapp on David Z, January 5, 2016:
"David, when I look at your tasting notes in the aggregate (not just the above), I sometimes get the strong impression that you do not actually like wine, nor how it is made, nor the people that make it. One way or the other, the beverage seems to inflame every sensitivity, allergy and neurosis that has ever plagued you. Other times, it seems that you enjoy verbally deconstructing wines (and winemakers) more than you enjoy the drinking. Wine is supposed to be easy. It is supposed to be enjoyable most of the time, to deliver epiphanies occasionally, and simply brushed aside when it is not. It is fine to intellectualize or even romanticize wine, of course, as great wines (or lesser wines in personally important contexts) often lend themselves to that. If wine continues to inflict the kind of pain upon you that I see above, you may want to consider unsweetened, organic iced tea, using pure spring water for both brewing and ice cubes. Just a suggestion…
I don’t even think the blind guessing was a particularly special achievement here. Rather, I think it spoke to the strong imprint of the winemaker on these wines. As someone who’d had tried all of these producers at least once in the past, and in many cases several bottles, it was really striking how strongly each wine spoke of its winemaker. In contrast, in our burgundy tastings, I’m generally completely helpless, even with wines from producers I know well - it just seems like the Burgundies don’t show producer signature as strongly.
?!?
David - perhaps you’re not familiar with my last thread, entitled “i’m in love with Enderle & Moll”. Or the thread before that, “A stemmy pinot that didn’t suck”, where I posted a note rating a 100% whole cluster pinot (2012 Dujac Morey 1er) 91 points and called it “absolutely super”. But by all means, keep on parroting that sad old man’s Trumpian bullshit.
If I ever go 8 for 8 at one of our burg tastings, I’ll reconsider.
We need David to do a tasting of old Bordeaux
Clearly you thought it was an achievement. Don’t be bashful.
If you strongly disagree with all of these particular wine making styles and think they are atrocious QPR, why on earth would you be on any of these lists? Are you simply hoping that Ted Lemon is suddenly going to change it up after all these years? Given your comment about producer style (new world pinot) vs terroir (burgundy), it seems as if you actually prefer a strong producer signature over a true expression of terroir simply because you can identify the wine. That’s some strong ego.
We all agree with you.
You’re either a blithering idiot or willfully misreading this thread for purposes of throwing insults. You seem to have a reasonable command of English, so I’ll assume you’re not an idiot and you’re just an asshole.
You’re being kind of thick. He generally likes Littorai. Hence he’s on the list. He didn’t like this one.
Please stop putting my in the position of defending DavidZ (he said pleadingly).
The only way you can write this is by ignoring everything David wrote. He usually likes Littorai much more but felt this bottle did not show well. Is your opinion that if one likes almost everything a producer does you should stop buying if you encounter one bottle you don’t like? Or more exactly in this case you should drop off the list if your precognitive powers show that at some point in the future you will open one bottle that you don’t like?
He also specifically says that he usually prefers Burgundy to CA pinot. How you can interpret that as meaning he prefers a strong producer signature is beyond me.
That said I disagree with the statement that there are no strong producer signatures in Burgundy.
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A quick comment on the Briceland Ronda’s…I’ve had 4-5 bottles of this and never noticed (or had anyone else remark on) a chemical smell in this or any of Andrew’s wines (disclosure: I visited the winery and consider Andrew a friend).
I can only assume there was something off with the bottle. The Ronda’s is generally my favorite bottling, though I think the Reserve is better in some years.
Here’s my last note on the wine:
Nicely concentrated but not over extracted in any way, the fruits are redder upon entry than on the finish, where red cherries seem to morph into black cherry and cranberry. Consistent with my last bottle, I’m getting a fair amount of baby powder, Christmas spice and pine needle with the barest hint of orange rind. With more time open, the finish develops a bit of a licorice. Abundant acidity keeps the wine fresh and bright, never feeling heavy. Tannins are very mild. Already complex and deliciously savory, this is ready to drink now, this wine should improve for several years.
13.6% abv, only 98 cases made. Special stuff.
Posted from CellarTracker
As with most things in life, YMMV.