TNs: Lignier, Krug

[MChang]

Quick meetup with @Nick_Christie for some music, champagne, and burgundy in pgh.

Krug Grande Cuvée 168eme

As reliable as ever. Beautiful nose with brioche and lemon zest. Very beautiful palate with crisp acidity and more citrus and stone fruits. Lovely finish. This is just hitting on all cylinders right now.

2000 Lignier Morey St Denis 1er Vielles Vignes

Wanted to check this out after the amazing performance last spring, and it was quite a different showing. Much darker in the glass, with lovely aromatics of strawberries and earth but not the crazy aromatic fireworks we got last year. Much more on the palate with more pure strawberry fruit and nice acidity and a stronger finish. This was perhaps a more complete or textbook burgundy than the bottle last year but didn’t quite have the shock and awe on the nose. Still, a beautiful burgundy drinking at or near prime.

[Kent_Comley]

Thanks for the notes. You guys drink well…consistently.
Coincidentally busted a 09 Hubert Lignier MSD this week and it was rather tasty. Dense, dark, stacked but with dimension. From hwat I have seen, these wines can be clunky young, but develop nicely.

[MChang]

@Kent_Comley

Thanks for the notes. You guys drink well…consistently.
Coincidentally busted a 09 Hubert Lignier MSD this week and it was rather tasty. Dense, dark, stacked but with dimension. From hwat I have seen, these wines can be clunky young, but develop nicely.

Well there were multiple different winemaking eras there; I believe Hubert made the wines pre 91 or so and again from 04-05 or so, Romain made the wines from 91-03, and Laurent mostly took over from Hubert sometime around 2006, and the wines are quite different. I believe the estate also went organic starting in 2006.

[Noah_C]

What are the stylistic differences you noticed between these eras?

[MChang]

I find the older wines can be more rustic, but some of that can be vintage differences. I think the wines are a bit more fruit driven now.

[Greg_K]

@Noah_C

What are the stylistic differences you noticed between these eras?

This is a somewhat complicated question because the various eras are not always straightforward.

Hubert made the wines until the mid to late 90s in a classical in style. Romain was a 90s/Parker influenced winemaker and his wines are much more oak influenced; the 1997-2003 renditions of Lignier are well made, but to my palate consistently oaky (especially on the finish). The wines are certainly not oaked to Dominique Laurent levels of that period, but they certainly show a lot of oak influence. With Romain’s unfortunate passing, the Domaine was split between his widow and Hubert (Laurent returned in the mid 2000s) and until about 2010 the Domaine was not actually making wine in its own cellars. It’s hard to say what specific impact this had, but I do not find the wines made in this period to be the most consistent; this was a difficult time for the Domaine, Laurent was learning and they did not have all their plots. The Domaine was reintegrated by 2009/2010 and from then on Hubert and Laurent (and as time went on, Laurent) have been making very classical wines, in the “classical” sense that they’re neither oak dominant nor oak averse, and use stem inclusion when they feel appropriate (typically a third). My personal preference in Burgundy is purity of fruit, and on that basis, I’m a huge fan of Laurent’s wines and was also a big fan of Hubert’s wines - I’ve had them back to the 80s (and still have some 80s MSD VV) and they’re wonderful. A 1991 opened a couple years ago was fantastic and the Domaine produced an absolutely magical set of 2016s.
I would not describe earlier vintages of Lignier as “more rustic”. However, the wines made between 1997 and 2009 are going to be different than the wines made now, which is not unusual for a Domaine in Burgundy that sees generational and winemaking shifts.
The Domaine is organic but doesn’t intend to get certified.

[MChang]

@Greg_K

@Noah_C

What are the stylistic differences you noticed between these eras?

This is a somewhat complicated question because the various eras are not always straightforward.

Hubert made the wines until the mid to late 90s in a classical in style. Romain was a 90s/Parker influenced winemaker and his wines are much more oak influenced; the 1997-2003 renditions of Lignier are well made, but to my palate consistently oaky (especially on the finish). The wines are certainly not oaked to Dominique Laurent levels of that period, but they certainly show a lot of oak influence. With Romain’s unfortunate passing, the Domaine was split between his widow and Hubert (Laurent returned in the mid 2000s) and until about 2010 the Domaine was not actually making wine in its own cellars. It’s hard to say what specific impact this had, but I do not find the wines made in this period to be the most consistent; this was a difficult time for the Domaine, Laurent was learning and they did not have all their plots. The Domaine was reintegrated by 2009/2010 and from then on Hubert and Laurent (and as time went on, Laurent) have been making very classical wines, in the “classical” sense that they’re neither oak dominant nor oak averse, and use stem inclusion when they feel appropriate (typically a third). My personal preference in Burgundy is purity of fruit, and on that basis, I’m a huge fan of Laurent’s wines and was also a big fan of Hubert’s wines - I’ve had them back to the 80s (and still have some 80s MSD VV) and they’re wonderful. A 1991 opened a couple years ago was fantastic and the Domaine produced an absolutely magical set of 2016s.
I would not describe earlier vintages of Lignier as “more rustic”. However, the wines made between 1997 and 2009 are going to be different than the wines made now, which is not unusual for a Domaine in Burgundy that sees generational and winemaking shifts.
The Domaine is organic but doesn’t intend to get certified.

There was a lot of discussion about who made the 1996s at Lignier; we’ve had the 1996 CDLR a few times later and there does definitely seem to be a stylistic shift compared to 2002 (which is obviously made by Romain, and I’d agree has more oak influence). I suppose some of the perceived rusticity could be vintage influence.

[Greg_K]

@MChang

@Greg_K

@Noah_C

What are the stylistic differences you noticed between these eras?

This is a somewhat complicated question because the various eras are not always straightforward.

Hubert made the wines until the mid to late 90s in a classical in style. Romain was a 90s/Parker influenced winemaker and his wines are much more oak influenced; the 1997-2003 renditions of Lignier are well made, but to my palate consistently oaky (especially on the finish). The wines are certainly not oaked to Dominique Laurent levels of that period, but they certainly show a lot of oak influence. With Romain’s unfortunate passing, the Domaine was split between his widow and Hubert (Laurent returned in the mid 2000s) and until about 2010 the Domaine was not actually making wine in its own cellars. It’s hard to say what specific impact this had, but I do not find the wines made in this period to be the most consistent; this was a difficult time for the Domaine, Laurent was learning and they did not have all their plots. The Domaine was reintegrated by 2009/2010 and from then on Hubert and Laurent (and as time went on, Laurent) have been making very classical wines, in the “classical” sense that they’re neither oak dominant nor oak averse, and use stem inclusion when they feel appropriate (typically a third). My personal preference in Burgundy is purity of fruit, and on that basis, I’m a huge fan of Laurent’s wines and was also a big fan of Hubert’s wines - I’ve had them back to the 80s (and still have some 80s MSD VV) and they’re wonderful. A 1991 opened a couple years ago was fantastic and the Domaine produced an absolutely magical set of 2016s.
I would not describe earlier vintages of Lignier as “more rustic”. However, the wines made between 1997 and 2009 are going to be different than the wines made now, which is not unusual for a Domaine in Burgundy that sees generational and winemaking shifts.
The Domaine is organic but doesn’t intend to get certified.

There was a lot of discussion about who made the 1996s at Lignier; we’ve had the 1996 CDLR a few times later and there does definitely seem to be a stylistic shift compared to 2002 (which is obviously made by Romain, and I’d agree has more oak influence). I suppose some of the perceived rusticity could be vintage influence.

There was a period of transition at the Domaine, so the wines are not likely to change radically within one year; with very rare exceptions (like at Dancer) transitions take time and the wines evolve. I’ve also had the 1996 Clos de la Roche multiple times; it shows its (not very good) vintage.
Rusticity and vintage influence are not very relevant to each other (other than maybe 2001), but I suspect this view is mostly held by people who drink a lot of young Burgundy which is full of fruit and aren’t very familar with older Burgundy, so see it as “rustic”.

[R_Frankel]

@GregK and @MChang thank you guys for this discussion. I’ve had dribs and drabs of H. Lignier’s wines pre-2010 and only really started collecting from 2014. I did snag a mixed case of 2005 village Chambolle & Gevrey and drank them in the last five years and enjoyed them a lot. At age 15-20 oak wasn’t an issue, but perhaps they used less in these wines.

Anyway - this kind of review of stylistic evolution is fascinating. Please do it for every other Burgundy producer . But seriously, any book recommendations that has this kind of information? Perhaps Burghound’s recent-ish book?

[jprusack]

@Greg_K and @MChang

considering all of the change at the domaine, any favorite vintages you can cite since 2000?

[MChang]

@jprusack

@Greg_K and @MChang

considering all of the change at the domaine, any favorite vintages you can cite since 2000?

Regarding CDLR, I’ve really enjoyed 18 and 19; we opened 12 recently and it took a few hours to open up, I probably wouldn’t open one for a few years if I had any left.

[Nick_Christie]

I had a busy Sunday traveling back home, but I finally have a moment to add some thoughts on the Recital & the Wines

Overview

I was so glad Michael was around to come with me to see Bruce Liu in a little intimate recital. I had initially got the tickets for a different pianist, but when she had to cancel to recover from an injury, the PSO was able to pull in Bruce. I am trying really hard now to incorporate seeing beautiful music concerts alongside a little wine R & R. Michael picked a fantastic restaurant and they let us come late after the recital.

The program was really lovely. He began each half of the concert with selections from Tchaikovsky’s Seasons, which he played in a very warm, gentle manner. Almost casual. Before then ramping up with more technical pieces from Scriabin, Chopin, and Prokofiev. His performance of Scriabin’s sonata No. 4 was particularly awesome. That’s a wild sonata at the end and he has such control to his playing that even as the speed & savagery ramped up, one never felt a touch out of sorts in volume or pitch. One could make a Burgundian analogy. Even in showing tremendous complexity or intensity, he didn’t need to veer out his gentle, delicate style.

The Chopin was special, too (That’s the prestigious prize on his resume). And he was very touching to hear a bit of his story. He had a very bemused, inquisitive demeanor as he shared his stories and some of his humble preferences. He sheepishly shared that he enjoys still practicing at home on his old, humble yamaha from his teenage years, rather than upgrade to a new concert-level instrument. Both the C-Sharp Impromptu & the C-Sharp nocturne (encore) were played with such introspection & love. He’s a special pianist. He really embraces his own musicality.

The Wines were great.

We had the Krug 168 at a mix of temperatures (‘too warm’, ‘slightly too warm’, ‘just right’) which I think I liked a bit more than Michael. I don’t mind a high-end Champagne warm sometimes (as an occasional experiment/accident), as I find the journey to the finish very direct. By that, I mean, if the mid-palate is a bit fluffy because of the warmth, a really well made Champagne will still possess a wonderful refinement of structure and perfume on the finish. This 168 certainly did.

As it cooled, you could taste/feel its well-made composition squeeze the wine & its quality back into place, jiu jitsu style, so that the brioche & citrus are carried within a spine of stone & structure. I really loved it. We had some beautiful, casual pairings. Cured Spanish Ham, Lovely White Anchovies, and an exceptional Soft Shell Crab (my one specific request from the menu).

The 2000 Lignier MSD VV was indeed more ‘by the book’ than last April’s ethereal bottle. Michael’s Note is perfect. Dark Strawberries, Dark Earth, more deeper structure & composition than the forward-facing, lighter color fireworks of last year’s bottle.

As you’d expect, Michael & I had a really good conversation about this wine. It’s a very nice bottle of Premier Cru Burgundy. And it’s a good data point when discussing the ‘levels’ of Burgundy, when compared to the absolute best wines we’ve had this Spring together. The ‘textbook’ nature referred to its best qualities, and the areas where it’s not as light-on-its-feet or luxurious compared to a higher end wine. A lovely wine to share & we also got to give two glasses to the staff as both Michael & I were going a bit light that evening.

Final Thoughts

I am really trying to organize more evenings like this one, with special concerts & beautiful wines. This was my 3rd this year. I flew to Toronto (in a winter snowstorm, no less) to see the magical Vikingur Olaffason with @Mike_Grammer, I saw Yeol eum son in Bethesda this Spring with an off-board friend, and I was thrilled to have Michael Chang come along with me to see this special recital.

I have to share @dcornutt with the other 6 continents these days, but I really hope he & I can arrange an overlap very soon in Atlanta. @Alex_Valdes will hopefully be amenable to come hang out with me at Carnegie Hall once I can get up to NY more often. Honey Dijon (aka @Vince_T) will hopefully be more at leisure one of these years. @Matthew_King gave me a legally dubious acquiescence if I can fly to LA and also drag his crew out with us, but (as pound-for-pound I’m surprisingly strong), I’m hopeful to make him sheepishly accept. And whether @Brad_England will finally be so exhausted at sending me rejection letters that it’ll be easier to get me to shut up if he just comes to something, remains an open question

Basically, I have arrived at the conclusion that I will push harder & harder to see these recitals with my friends. My Dms are open, so come brainstorm with me.

Life is short. Music, Champagne, and Burgundy: Worth the effort

Bruce Liu – Chopin: Nocturne in C Sharp Minor, KK IVa/16 (WPD performance)

[Greg_K]

@R_Frankel

@GregK and @MChang thank you guys for this discussion. I’ve had dribs and drabs of H. Lignier’s wines pre-2010 and only really started collecting from 2014. I did snag a mixed case of 2005 village Chambolle & Gevrey and drank them in the last five years and enjoyed them a lot. At age 15-20 oak wasn’t an issue, but perhaps they used less in these wines.

Anyway - this kind of review of stylistic evolution is fascinating. Please do it for every other Burgundy producer . But seriously, any book recommendations that has this kind of information? Perhaps Burghound’s recent-ish book?

I’ve not read Allen’s book or Jasper’s book, so I don’t know what kind of detail they go into on these topics. I’m afraid my knowledge is mostly based on drinking the wines and speaking with Laurent, Neal and other people (so take it with a gran of salt).

@jprusack

@Greg_K and @MChang

considering all of the change at the domaine, any favorite vintages you can cite since 2000?

Laurent made an absolutely magical set of 2016s; his 2018s are better than most, though are still marred by the nature of the vintage. I recall tasting those wines in barrel and having a discussion about the wines with him. 2019s are unsurprisingly excellent.

[MChang]

08 CDLR was also really nice last year.

[Mike_Grammer]

Lovely on all counts. The deepening of a relationship is, as you know, so rewarding for me to read about

Yes, his treatment of the Scriabin (he played that for us up here at Koerner) is superb. I also love his rendition of the Seasons. I also love your “Burgundy” reference to his playing style—absolutely a point.

Our enjoyment together of Olafsson doing the Goldbergs was very special. Looking forward to my first Yeol experience next year.

Extremely interesting to read both of your impressions of the MSD compared to that excellent bottle we all shared last spring.

A bientot

Mike

[Karl_K]

Love Scriabin!

Sounds like a nice time

[Andrew_K]

@Greg_K

I’m afraid my knowledge is mostly based on drinking the wines and speaking with Laurent, Neal and other people

Never one to miss an opportunity to flex…

[Greg_K]