TNs: Keller and Prum 15s, Arnoux CV 02

Early peek at quality 2015 Rieslings:

2015 Weingut Keller Riesling RR
Starts off rich and a bit honeyed, then lime zest kicks in as a top note to balance it all out. The finish tails off long and elegantly with washing minerals at end. Very crystalline. Excellent trocken wine that is clearly young but can be enjoyed now. Great texture. Long happy life ahead of it.

2015 Joh. Jos. Prüm Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Spätlese
The Prum is a bit deeper and more concentrated than the Keller. It seems more closed and has a musky quality that is not unpleasing. Lots of extract. Green apple, but there is some apricot lurking in there too. Long and full, and
another wine of finesse and potential. There’s more mystery in this wine than the Keller, whose charms are more upfront right now.

Bonus pour:

2002 Domaine Robert Arnoux / Arnoux-Lachaux Clos Vougeot
I haven’t had a Clos Vougeot from Arnoux before. CVs can be non-descript, given the size of the vineyard. I tend to favor renditions by Mugneret-Gibourg and Mortet. This was a very good GC, rather than a great one. The nose is a highlight-- black cherry and freshly turned soil. It’s still in a young-adult phase, and could use some smoothing and polish. It’s very much in the house style – velvety, full, darker-fruited. There’s a menthol/medicinal note that adds some intrigue mid-palate. I picked up a bit of brett at the end. Held steady over four hours.

2015’s from Germany are the most exciting wines I’ve had since 2001. I bought a 6 pack of the Prum GK WSA for a song and really, really wish I had bought more at the release price I was offered. I think as the years continue to pass I’ll regularly find myself wishing/kicking myself for having not bought more from the vintage. Thanks for sharing…

OK, I will disagree, and say that 2012 is the most exciting vintage since 2001. 2015 is excellent, but the balance is not as good as ‘01 or ‘12.

Is there a great Clos de Vougeot, I find it to be the least reliable and underperforming Grand Cru, who makes a great one?


Worth $300+?

Based on comps to other wines in that price bracket, unequivocally yes

There ARE / WERE enough great Clos Vougeots - but not always and in every vintage - just for instance
Chateau de la Tour, Raphet, JJ Confuron, Anne Gros, Michel Gros, Gros Frere & Soeur, Hudelot-Noellat, Clos Frantin, Engel, Georges Mugneret, Meo-Camuzet … some others …
BUT there are also many disapointing ones …

David, you’re not alone in thinking this way. My friend Doug also feels this way about 12. For me, the 15s were more immediately approachable and this may be due to not having the same structure and balance as the 12’s…I also had a harder time finding/getting some 12’s so it may well be the case…I certainly have not tasted as many 12s as I have 15s

For the longest time, I thought I was the only one that preferred the 2012s over the 2015s. I continue to buy 2012s and yes it is getting harder but MacArthur, where I primarily shop, still has about a dozen in stock.

Both 2012 and 2015 Keller RR are gems. Although it should be shhhhhh
Grivots CV is also ok

The best Clos Vougeot I ever had was from Mugneret Guibourg.

Yes, as much as I love 2015 in Germany, I still think 2012 is the better vintage overall. At least I prefer it, by a small bit. The highs in '15 are extremely high, though.

I appreciate you more knowledgeable guys weighing in on those vintages for German Ries, as I’m just starting my journey in that sphere. I have loved the 15s I’ve had, but will search out 12s if I can find them. And, of course, 2001s, which I already know to look for (for me, that was a dream vintage for anything Alsatian or Loire already…and, natch, Sauternes). Much thanks


The thread has focused on 3 vintages but the bounties in the MSR the last 2 decades go well beyond. I’d start the run in 1996 (although others would go further back) and say that at least 1997, 1998, 2001, 2002, 2004, (2005?), 2007, (2010?), 2012, 2015, (2016), (2017) are all excellent MSR vintages, some better at one address than another as it always goes. In parentheses there is room to debate or to further assess. And the missing vintages have turned out pretty well too with 2000 in particular having aged somewhat surprisingly well.

My favorite for drinking right now if I had to pick one is 1996, with 1997 a close second, and 2012 is probably a successor in the vein of 1996 while 2015 is somewhat unique. Which is not to denigrate any others.

For German wine lovers the last two decades have been vinous heaven.

I like the Hudelot Noellat Clos Vougeot - but of course it’s not as good as the RSV and Richebourg. Liger Belair is making one now - I haven’t tried it but bet it’s good.

As always. Producer>Vintage. Some great 12s (best Prum WS Spat since 01?) some 15s are better. Though we really won’t know for a while yet.

Glad to have a load of both in the cellar not just ‘the best’.

And in Rheinhessen? For Trocken Riesling I prefer 2015 to 2012

Only tried a few dry 15s…

I have not had a single dry Rheinhessen wine from 2015. I stopped pursuing the wines when I tired of the fandom around them.