TNs: Copain (wtf), Velvet Glove, KB Amber Ridge, et al.

WINE TALK
1

Ive been buying and drinking Copain syrah for a few years, I quit buying the pinots when they turned Burgundian, or classic, or rustic, or whatever term you prefer for watery. I had not noticed any real change in style in the syrah despite claims to the contrary by other threads. However, the last few Copains I have had have been dissapointing with the exception of an 03 (go figure) C+C. So I popped and poured a 2006 Harrison Clarke. It sucked. Hot (and heat doesnt usually bother me) and disjointed (this I mind.) The fruits wasnt so much overripe (again, some days I like that) as stewed. Really tasted like stewed prunes. Then there is the stemminess which is so Copain, but when disjointed like this it tastes like someone added veggies to the stewed prunes and you get the picture. I have gotten all my Copains from the winery in cool weather, so as much as this sounds like a cooked wine, unless they cooked it at the winery somehow, it can’t be. Third post 05 Copain in a row that dissapoints me though obviously this one is the worst of the bunch.

2005 Realm the Tempest
Motor oil dark in the glass. Great nose of dark fruits and chocolate, however, even with an hour of air this is tight as all hell. I let a glass sit for 4 hours and some great cassis and dark berries appeared around the chocolate but still it felt tight and tannin dominated. I have yet to have a Realm that was ready, all seem to need to be thrown in the back of the cellar and forgotten about for a few years. Whats there is great though.


2006 Kosta Brown Amber Ridge Pinot
The 06 KB appelation wines were drinkable to me (a little jolly rancher never hurt anyone) but nothing more. I did not have great expectations for this. Boy was I surprised. Very light red in the glass, translucent. The nose is much bigger than I expected with sweet black cherries and an intriguing beefy quality at first that seems to blow off to reveal the most intoxicating rose petal nose Ive smelled in a pinot yet. A few people in the room are not winos, and there was a lady who doesnt drink at all and they all could smell the rose petal. That alone made this bottle worth the money but the palate was not at all shabby with sweet cherries, cinnamon and a little cola. A bit lighter than bigger years but man, an enjoyable bottle of wine if you like the style and all ready to go.

2005 Saxum Rocket Block
The last time I had this it blew my mind. It was my favorite grenache based US wine to date. That bottle still is because this one, while good, was dissapointing. Big nose of dark fruits, beef and baking spices. On this day it smelled like a syrah, which is not what I wanted. The palate also has syrah like qualities with blackberries, beef and spices, but there is a hint of brown sugar which I couldnt even decide if I liked. The people I was with loved it, which made the bottle not a total loss, but I was at a loss. Good wine, two be sure, but not what I remembered. Have to more, we’ll see.

2006 Mollydooker Velvet Glove
Ok, so let me get my flame retardant cape. I love this wine. Ultra intense blueberry nose with hints of raw beef and oak. The palate is a giant blueberry creamsicle with a huge acid back bone. I get no heat at all. Thick and creamy texture. Its a blueberry cinnamon shake. I know that for some people that might sound gross blahblah but shit, I like blueberry shakes. Ill never tire of the Velvet Glove.

2

Berto, I like your style.

Great insightful notes.

3

The '06 KB’s were a hot mess when consumed throughout last year adn the beginning of this year, but way early on. Somehow, it seems a transformation took place in most of them, as they have turned into vastly different wines - more balanced (still the high ABV is obvious, of course), more fruit, more bouquet. I remember trying one of Rob Winn’s '06 Sonoma Coast pinots, one I knew to be a hot mess from the two previous bottles I had, and it just blew me away. Then, the notes kept coming out that confirmed this trend, and apparently they still are.

I would probably still be a buyer if the ABV was lower - at least a full percent lower. Laube likes them that way, so obviously it won’t happen.

4

If you want to try a Realm that is ready now, give the 04 Tempest a shot. I prefer my wines with some age on them and purchase the Realm wines for consumption down the road. but saying that; I can’t keep my hands off of the 04 Tempest. It’s drinking really well now.

I’ve has the 05 Tempest a few times and do not enjoy it as much of the 04. Less Merlot in 05 and 06 I believe.

5

It’s a new year, Todd, so I will resist the temptation to say something snide neener

Nah - I’ve got to . . .

Do you really think that KB makes their wines in a specific style to ‘play’ to Laube et al . . . rather than make it in a style that the winemaking team likes . . . and feels does justice, in their opinions, to the vineyards they buy from?!?!?!

Just thought I’d get the year off to a roaring start [swearing.gif]

Cheers!

6

In a word…yes.

7

Todd,

I certainly cannot speak directly for the KB boys, but I have spoken with them in the past about this specific topic, and I do not think they do . . .

I think they make wines that they enjoy drinking themselves . . .

Do you see either of these two posting notes speakingly glowingly about Burgundian wines they’ve recently consumed a la other winemakers on this board and others? No . . .

Just another viewpoint . . .

Cheers!

8

It’s possible that it is just some convenient coincidence, sure, it’s just my belief.

9

Ha like they couldve predicted Laube would like their wine. That guy is all over the place. The formula not changing at this point would likely be more related to the fact that there is still a wait list for the single vineyard wines at least. I personally hope the style doesnt change…

10

Humberto,
I can definitely say that the KB wines have evolved in style over the years. Certainly the 07s are more restrained and elegant than earlier vintages. I do believe that the KB team have honed their winemaking choices over the years, as they saw how the bottled wines developed over time. And I absolutely do not believe their choices are made to please Laube in some particular way.

As for the Copain style changes, no way to know about your particular bottle of Harrison Clarke, but it does sound from the other wines you like that Copain is not a producer for your tastes. Personally, I cannot even drink the Mollydooker wines, but I’m not going to tell you they’re crap, I’m only going to say they’re made in a style that’s not for me.
Regards

11

Of course Alan, they are getting more experienced. Every wine style changes over time. We agree fundamentally, lots of reasons to change, one of them not likely Laube.
Im hoping the restraint doesnt continue to increase a la Copain pinots. I cant drink those.

I dont usually object to more restrained syrahs though…there are times when I dont want my palate zapped…the last few bottles of Copain though have been bad tasting, not just restrained, in fact, not restrained at all. [shrug.gif]

12

Berto, this sounds like a dream tasting for me!

13

Ha! but a point of clarification, this was no tasting…this was me getting drunk over the holiday weekend :slight_smile:

14

I agree with this statement. Berto likes big wines, and that’s great as far as I’m concerned. I was interested in the review of the Copain because of the descriptors used (i.e., hot, vegetal, stewed, etc.). I had the 2006 HC 6 or 8 months ago, and my experience with it was very different – I thought it was balanced, elegant, and restrained. In any event, my last taste of this was long enough ago that I don’t think it helps with the question of whether Berto’s bottle was bad. Maybe someone who has had a more recent taste of this will chime in.

15

Almost brought one of these to our Copain dinner recently but opted to go with other options. I remember the 06 HC being packed with lots of fruit last go around though and thought it needed plenty of time. Which is why I left it be for longer.

Whatever Berto’s issue is with that wine it certainly doesn’t sound like a style issue from the tasting note.

16

[shock.gif] To imply that we make our wine according some point recipe is ludicrous. Many high end producers get accused of this, and it has about the same merit as the Syrah-added-to-Pinot discussion. What a miserable existence it would be to make wine that we didn’t like, nay love (that conclusion CAN be drawn here). Points and high ratings are great, to be sure, but reducing our lifestyle to point chasing is borderline offensive.

17

Can you give an example of which Copain Pinot you thought was watery? I haven’t had a lot of them, but the ones I’ve had certainly don’t meet that description. I had a 2006 Kiser En Haut Pinot a week or so ago, and thought it had a ton of fruit. I was actually a few years too early on it, but wth.

18

Im just going to open another one when I get home [berserker.gif]

19

So Dan, how would you then describe the contrarian styles made by many winemakers who represent several different labels? Are each of the styles they create - not always the same, mind you - equally enjoyable, or would some be considered ‘offensive’ if not so? Look at the stylings of Thomas Rivers Brown, and the variance among his wines. How about Christian Moueix?

20

Sorry Frank, I think we posted at the same time so I didnt see your question. 06 on, all of them including KEH, are more restrained than they used to be. Im just being an ass in calling them watery because most times I prefer a riper, boozier style.