TNR: Krug Grand Cuvée NV: 164th Edition-2008 Base

[Neal.Mollen]

@R@y.Tupp@+sch

@Neal.Mollen

Oh, I like the MV wine. I just think it is overhyped and overpriced. I get as much pleasure from any number of wines for which I pay significantly less.

I think it is the best qpr of all of the wines in the Krug portfolio.

That may well be true, but I am not sure that is necessarily a vigorous defense of the MV’s value. And yes, I have had aged bottles.

[ToddFrench]

@Neal.Mollen

Well, I for one am extremely disappointed. I wanted something for nothing (and the chicks for free), and Todd failed to deliver.

What’s new?

[Ray.Tuppa_sch]

@Neal.Mollen

@R@y.Tupp@+sch

@Neal.Mollen

Oh, I like the MV wine. I just think it is overhyped and overpriced. I get as much pleasure from any number of wines for which I pay significantly less.

I think it is the best qpr of all of the wines in the Krug portfolio.

That may well be true, but I am not sure that is necessarily a vigorous defense of the MV’s value. And yes, I have had aged bottles.

I’ll be more vigorous. Besides DP and Taittinger CdC there is no other wine at its price point that can rival it currently or over the past 30+ years.

[Neal.Mollen]

Well, it’s important to find what makes you happy. Good on you.

[Ray.Tuppa_sch]

@Neal.Mollen

Well, it’s important to find what makes you happy. Good on you.

Thanks!!

[ToddFrench]

@R@y.Tupp@+sch

@Neal.Mollen

Well, it’s important to find what makes you happy. Good on you.

Thanks!!

[CFu]

@R@y.Tupp@+sch

@Neal.Mollen

@R@y.Tupp@+sch

I think it is the best qpr of all of the wines in the Krug portfolio.

That may well be true, but I am not sure that is necessarily a vigorous defense of the MV’s value. And yes, I have had aged bottles.

I’ll be more vigorous. Besides DP and Taittinger CdC there is no other wine at its price point that can rival it currently or over the past 30+ years.

truer words have never been spoken.

[Brad_Baker]

Thread drift, but limiting the price point to $150 or below, I’d put Lilbert’s vintage, Peter’s Special Club/Chetillons and Vilmart’s Couer de Cuvee up there right with DP, CdC, and Krug Grande Cuvee. Coeur de Cuvee doesn’t have the same history as it only dates back to 89, but I think it has done enough to enter into the conversation.

[Paul_David]

Hey Brad keep quiet & let them drink Krug & DP

[Fred_Daniels]

@Brad Baker

Thread drift, but limiting the price point to $150 or below, I’d put Lilbert’s vintage, Peter’s Special Club/Chetillons and Vilmart’s Couer de Cuvee up there right with DP, CdC, and Krug Grande Cuvee. Coeur de Cuvee doesn’t have the same history as it only dates back to 89, but I think it has done enough to enter into the conversation.

Yes, but Coeur de Cuvee from Vilmart has pissed my off by tripling in price in 5 years so I’m just going to pass on that…

[Brad_Baker]

@Fred Daniels

Yes, but Coeur de Cuvee from Vilmart has pissed my off by tripling in price in 5 years so I’m just going to pass on that…

Fred,

But most of that price increase didn’t come from Vilmart.

[Ray.Tuppa_sch]

@Brad Baker

Thread drift, but limiting the price point to $150 or below, I’d put Lilbert’s vintage, Peter’s Special Club/Chetillons and Vilmart’s Couer de Cuvee up there right with DP, CdC, and Krug Grande Cuvee. Coeur de Cuvee doesn’t have the same history as it only dates back to 89, but I think it has done enough to enter into the conversation.

Brad,

I’m a multiple case buyer of Chetillons in almost every vintage and while I really like Peter’s wines, unlike DP, Taittinger CdC and Krug Grande Cuvee, I have never been blown away by one. Same for Vilmart, and I also think they lack a bit of consistency. I’ll admit I have little experience with Libert’s Champagne so I can’t comment about them.

[Brad_Baker]

Ray,

You won’t get any argument from me and I greatly respect your opinions.

I think Chetillons needs a lot of time to peak. I have been floored by a number of the wines from the 70s and 80s. For some reason this wine seems to need 30 years to really explode in flavor, but when it does, I am astounded by it. It seems the NV takes around a decade to really strut its stuff, the vintage 15-20 years, and the Chetillons/Special Club needs 30. At least that is my read.

I am a huge Vilmart fan, but I can understand your comment. I think the 89-97 vintages of Coeur de Cuvee were quite different in style from year to year, but starting with the 98 they have been much more consistent. I love them, but can see others not being as big on them. For me, no one else uses new or very young oak in such a polished and balanced way that actually benefits the wine.

Lilbert is probably the slowest aging wine I have come across in Champagne. Something very special and different from everything else in Cramant goes into these bottles even if there is no logic to this being the case.

[Michael_S_Monie]

@Brad Baker

Ray,

You won’t get any argument from me and I greatly respect your opinions.

I think Chetillons needs a lot of time to peak. I have been floored by a number of the wines from the 70s and 80s. For some reason this wine seems to need 30 years to really explode in flavor, but when it does, I am astounded by it. It seems the NV takes around a decade to really strut its stuff, the vintage 15-20 years, and the Chetillons/Special Club needs 30. At least that is my read.

I am a huge Vilmart fan, but I can understand your comment. I think the 89-97 vintages of Coeur de Cuvee were quite different in style from year to year, but starting with the 98 they have been much more consistent. I love them, but can see others not being as big on them. For me, no one else uses new or very young oak in such a polished and balanced way that actually benefits the wine.

Lilbert is probably the slowest aging wine I have come across in Champagne. Something very special and different from everything else in Cramant goes into these bottles even if there is no logic to this being the case.

First time that I’m hearing that Chetillons needs three decades to reach its peak. I would imagine this depends on the strength of the vintage. And I’m curious as to what I think is your recent addition of “Special Club” when referring to Chetillons. Thanks.

[Brad_Baker]

Michael,

It depends on the flavors you are looking for when defining “peak”. Give Chetillons 30 years and it is often out of this world.

Pierre Peters used to be in the Special Club. This was their top wine through the first half of the 80s when it then became Cuvee Speciale; then starting in the late 90s, it was labeled as Chetillons. The Special Club wasn’t always 100% Chetillons in every vintage, but it was always a bit majority of the blend; same goes for the Cuvee Speciale although it almost always was pure Chetillons.

[Ray.Tuppa_sch]

@Brad Baker

Ray,

You won’t get any argument from me and I greatly respect your opinions.

I think Chetillons needs a lot of time to peak. I have been floored by a number of the wines from the 70s and 80s. For some reason this wine seems to need 30 years to really explode in flavor, but when it does, I am astounded by it. It seems the NV takes around a decade to really strut its stuff, the vintage 15-20 years, and the Chetillons/Special Club needs 30. At least that is my read.

I am a huge Vilmart fan, but I can understand your comment. I think the 89-97 vintages of Coeur de Cuvee were quite different in style from year to year, but starting with the 98 they have been much more consistent. I love them, but can see others not being as big on them. For me, no one else uses new or very young oak in such a polished and balanced way that actually benefits the wine.

Lilbert is probably the slowest aging wine I have come across in Champagne. Something very special and different from everything else in Cramant goes into these bottles even if there is no logic to this being the case.

Brad,

Never had a 30 yo wine from Peters. Next time I’m in Champagne I will make a visit there and beg them to open one for me.

[Michael_S_Monie]

@Brad Baker

Michael,

It depends on the flavors you are looking for when defining “peak”. Give Chetillons 30 years and it is often out of this world.

Pierre Peters used to be in the Special Club. This was their top wine through the first half of the 80s when it then became Cuvee Speciale; then starting in the late 90s, it was labeled as Chetillons. The Special Club wasn’t always 100% Chetillons in every vintage, but it was always a bit majority of the blend; same goes for the Cuvee Speciale although it almost always was pure Chetillons.

I guess that it is a testament to the Chardonnay grown in Mesnil.

[Brad_Baker]

Michael,

I am not sure I would say that. With Mesnil, it is quite vineyard or area specific. Le Mesnil-sur-Oger wasn’t an original Grand Cru. It was elevated in 1985. In general, the best plots from the Cote des Blancs villages of Avize, Cramant, and Mesnil are amazing with age. Oiry, Oger, and Chouilly have some very nice spots as well though normally not to the same level with Oger being more forward and round, Chouilly being inconsistent, and Oiry often best when blended with something else or often just plain called an Avize, Cramant, or Chouilly.

[jcoley3]

@Brad Baker

Lilbert is probably the slowest aging wine I have come across in Champagne. Something very special and different from everything else in Cramant goes into these bottles even if there is no logic to this being the case.

What’s the oldest vintage you’ve tried?

I can’t get enough of the wines, and I was happy to bury some 08 in the bottom box of a corner of the cellar. The 10 vintage is another beauty, and I will have to be sure to do the same.

[Brad_Baker]

@jcoley3

What’s the oldest vintage you’ve tried?

I can’t get enough of the wines, and I was happy to bury some 08 in the bottom box of a corner of the cellar. The 10 vintage is another beauty, and I will have to be sure to do the same.

Jim,

1964 is the oldest I have had. As an aside, 2011 is a big winner for the vintage and a nice surprise in quality overall. Historic production on the vintage wine has only been around 2,000-4,000 bottles a year so it can be a tough find.