TN: Vieux Donjon Vertical

WINE TALK
21

Because if you taste a huge fruit and tannin monster first, your palate is challenged to appreciate and assess the subtleties of the mature wines.

22

That is absolutely not my experience - it is a pity for the mature wines to get served so early on - and often being the highlights of a tasting.
But I admit every palate is different -

Just read the Dom. de Chevalier tasting with Olivier Bernard - he, too, seems to prefer the mature wines at the end, which makes absolutely sense.

23

I agree with Robert.
In my tastings I serve generally young to old, but not strictly … rather pair similar vintages to compair in the same flight … like 2003 and 2007, or 2001 and 2005 or 1995.
The youngest vintages at the end is a double waste… (imho)

24

That’s quite a strong opinion.

While I will not calling anyone’s ordering a waste, I’m the exact opposite. I agree with the post above by Bill that the more mature and nuanced wines should go first and younger ones last, as I do believe our palates become more challenged over the course of an evening of drinking, especially if you start with younger, chewier, more primary wines.

I do like your idea of pairing like vintages to like vintages, if possible.

25

Ok, “waste” might have been a wrong expression (I apologize), but if I get served a fine tasting like this in THAT order I personally think it´s a pity … the best/most interesting wines early, and the quite primary and less nuanced wines at the end.

When I´m in the cellar of a wine-maker tasting out of barrel I always taste the young vintage first, then maybe the older (or several older) vintages out of bottle … and then - if I´m lucky - a mature vintage from the old stock … and I´m fully able to aprechiate the mature wine(s).
Jean-Louis Chave served a good 17-18 wines from barrels (incl. St.Joseph components), then a 1991 - and last a 1971 H.
A TREAT !

26

I’m going to an Opus tasting and dinner in two weeks, hosted by Opus, and they are starting with more mature wines before the new releases.

Of course, the better plan is to just drink all mature wines at a tasting! [cheers.gif]

27

Yes, when I’m at a tasting at a winemaker that has barrel tasting, we usually start there. And because more mature vintages, when they get opened, result from the chances of our discussion, they tend to come last. I do not consider this the ideal order at dinner parties and other private tastings for reasons of palate fatigue and alcohol intake. When I’m at wineries, I spit and drink a lot of water, ameliorating those effects. And even that is only up to a point. At an all day walk around like Printemps au Chateauneuf, my palate is a mess by the afternoon even with spitting and water.

28

Our tastings are usually done with this tasting order. Even blind tastings we choose to go light/older to big/younger. It has always worked. On this night Bill and I thought this would be best and everyone agreed.

For years we did these events at a local place where the owner was a qualified sommelier and friend. We basically walked in the door, handed him our wine and let him do it all. Sadly he has moved to the Okanagan. Restaurants in Vancouver even at the high end are a lot more casual then in other large cities. They lean towards natural wines, curated cocktails and craft beer.

On other occasions a host could provide all of the wines and order them anyway they like. This night everyone contributed bottles and this worked out very well. Besides I had other things to worry about, like what to wear. I decided on a tweed Shooting Jacket, tattersall shirt, fair isle vest and cinnamon coloured cords. As it was snowing I wore a pair of brogue boots.

29

To each his/her own …

In our tasting group (since late 1990) we usually go:
sparklers (if any)
whites (if any)
younger reds to older reds, but not strictly
sweeties

I do not mean that vintages should be arranged strictly young to old … often it depends on the producers/vintages, also on bottle condition -
for instance I would not serve a flight with some risky bottles (due to fill etc.) last - but usually I try to put the most promising flight(s) at the end, and the very primary ones rather early.
It also needs a little bit of fantasy … and a fine and well working order has to be well thought out … I don´t think “do what you want” will give the best results …

Soon I´m going to do a comprehensive St.Emilion-tasting. My order will be (most probably):
1st flight: 1995/98/99/2000
2nd: 4x 1995
3rd: 1983/85/85/86
4th: 4x 1998
5th: 4x 1990
6th: 1970/1975/1976/1978
7th: 4x 1989
It also depends on the meal served in between …

30

Thanks for some great notes. I’ve been a fan of VD for years. Interested that there wasn’t a 99, 00, or 03?

31

Could you post a pic so that we can pick this apart, too?

I’m a bit nervous about the overall composition given your references, but perhaps it all worked out since you were mixing traditional, modern and post-modern vintages of Donjon. And make sure to cross-link it to the shoe thread in Asylum.

Corey will have final acceptance review rights.

32

Yeah, but what order did you put them on?

33

Just for fun, my comments on that (I expect that you are already aware of what I say)…

1 - the 89 and 90 vintages celebrate the change in style from classic claret to modern sweeter fruited wines, so that might be an interesting pair to try one after the other. Personally, if the 90s you choose are in a certain style, the more classic 89s might suffer and could benefit from being served first. Don’t think you are likely to have a serious enough mismatch to worry about it either way, though.

2 - your 3rd flight has one stand out - the 86. depending on which one it may show markedly different from the others

3 - I like the 6th flight. The 70 should be hands down winner, but the 75 may be a dark horse - pick the right one and it could be a real battle. 76 and 78 are in general in decline, but specific wines can still be pleasurable

I look forward to your notes. And hop you taste the 95 Magdelaine (have an unopened case and wondering when to broach it).

And FWIW, Mr Cooper did indeed look very spiffy on the day… [wink.gif]

34

Your comments are well-thought, but without knowing the actual Chateaux it’ s still fishing in the dark. Moreover after opening - 5 h in advance - some late changes might be necesary … due to TCA or less convincing bottles.
We’ll see if I’ ll find time for TNs …

35

Robert.

This is a similar rig.

36

Have you had the 14. Really enjoyed the 3 bottles I tasted and drinking well young. Didn’t hurt it only cost $30.

37

I love the 2001 V-D too and enjoyed another great half bottle yesterday. It packs so much intensity into something where the weight and color look so light. Only a few left, and I guess they’ll be finished up in the next year or so.