2007 Clos du Mont-Olivet Châteauneuf-du-Pape La Cuvée du Papet- France, Rhône, Southern Rhône, Châteauneuf-du-Pape
Big, juicy dark red fruit, quite ripe though not roasted, quite high acidity, a bit of imbalance between the ripeness and the finishing acidity. Somewhat disappointing in this heralded vintage, showing more California-like that Chateauneuf, missing any sense of herbs, garrique, or what I would call CdP terroir. (88 pts.)
2007 Domaine Olivier Hillaire Châteauneuf-du-Pape Les Petits Pieds d’Armand- France, Rhône, Southern Rhône, Châteauneuf-du-Pape
Opens with a somewhat strange nose or cranberry and candied orange peal, which on its own would be fine, but there’s something irritating there as well; The palate is over the top, very ripe candied cherry cough drop. Typical for what I’m finding in the top end cuvees in 2007: ultra ripe (though not roasted and caramelized like many 03s were). This is another poster child for too much of a “good thing”. I haven’t tried the regular CdP bottling yet, it will likely be a much better wine. (84 pts.)
2007 Clos des Papes Châteauneuf-du-Pape- France, Rhône, Southern Rhône, Châteauneuf-du-Pape
Barnyard brett with a touch of sulfur on the nose; big, ripe, sweet, fairly candied, syrupy cherry, some out of place med acidity on the finish (relative to the ripeness level of the wine), along with a touch of what I perceive as alcohol spice. The level of ripeness obliterates whatever CdP character might be expected, turning it into just another overripe grenache that could come from anywhere. The one saving grace is that it hasn’t been knocked over the head with new oak. (85 pts.)
Having now tasted a reasonable number of the higher priced premium cuvees, I think I can safely conclude that 2007 is most definitely NOT the vintage of a lifetime for my tastes. I’ve found some outstanding wines (notably Vieux Telegraphe and Beaucastel), but have yet to be wowed by any of the so-called “top” wines (with the possible exception of Usseglio Mon Aieul). Posted from CellarTracker
Very interesting, Alan - thank you. Interesting that your feelings on the wines, and several others who have tasted them and posted, is quite largely in contrast with the mega-phrase seen in my signature.
Is the entire '07 CDP vintage going to be as controversial as '03 Clos des Papes has been?
Exactly what I’ve been saying. There are some terrific wines made in 2007 but there are also some like you describe. Some like that style but for me the very ripe, alcoholic wines just obliterate everything I love about CdP. Be careful.
Todd, first, there is no substitute for tasting for yourself (meaning the “general” yourself to anyone reading this). My tastes and expectations are only mine. As for comparing 07 to 03, I do think that 07 is head and shoulders above 03 in a general sense. I haven’t found any sign of the roasted character I found across the board in 03. I think 07 wines will be more lasting as well, though frankly I wouldn’t be cellaring any of the ultraripe wines in hopes that they’ll develop into that classic aged CdP we all know and love.
I was involved pretty deeply in those 03 Clos des Papes discussions, because I tried half a dozen bottles from different sources, and never found one that came even close to the glowing descriptions. I don’t think that can be said about the 07 model. The 07 is “there”, just not the kind of “there” I care for, if that makes sense
Cheers
It raises a curiosity. How much does emotion play in tasting notes?
What I mean is… (and I’m definitely NOT saying this is the case here with Alan)… but as the 07 vintage is trumped up, would one feel the need to be a “rebel” and have dissenting opinions? Just curious.
Again, not saying Alan’s notes are. .but it raised a thought in my head
Legitimate question, particularly as I am a registered iconoclast In all seriousness, I was really looking forward to trying these wines. Maybe a little trepidation, based on Parker’s glowing praise, but I was expecting to find big, striking wines with great depth and character. What I’ve found more of are big wines, yes, some with a lot of intensity, but overripe to the point that they become caricatures of what they should be. I admit that I am probably less tolerant of this direction in winemaking than many, so YMMV
Cheers
A gaint chasm in the wine world has opened up. There is very little common ground between the two sides. That chasm is between the very (uber) ripe wines and everything that brings to the table with the wine versus the more traditional style wines. Wines such as many of the 07 CdPs bring that chasm to the fore ground. Some people are in love with this type of wine, some people truly dislike them.
The battle has been simmering for awhile, as an example, with those lovers of Kosta Browne and Loring pinots vs, those that don’t like that style of wine. It has grown into a love hate affair.
What is very obvious is what side of that chasm that Parker and Molesworth/Laube live on.
Gordon, well said. Mark, no emotion on my part. I think there are some profound CdPs in 2007 and some CdPs I could not drink if you gave them to me for free. And a lot more wines to try. I agree with Alan on 2 of the 3. I haven’t tried the Olivet Papet although I’m usually a fan of this wine.
Thanks for the notes Alan. Precisely why I am tasting before I buy '07s, with the exception of a few of my standbys (Pégaü, Beaucastel, Vieux Donjon & Vieux Telegraphe). I am also very intolerant of the über-ripe, high alcohol style of CdP, but really enjoyed the basic Mont Olivet '07 & have bought some.
I think you’ll like it, though again for my tastes it is a very nice wine, but straddling the border of CdP and California. There was a discussion about this on the other board back a few months if you want to read.
Cheers
I’ve found that the wines rated in the lower 90s, from pretty much everyone, and under $30 have been over delivering for the price. So many of these uber cuvees have been overwhelming.
The wines are so bright and intense, it’s hard to say what these wines are going to do. They are put together better than 2003s, but what the end result will be is going to be up in the air for a long time.
That was true in years past, but I have to say that KB and Loring specifically, having gone down that path early in their brand lives, have learned a lot about how those wines last and develop. My perception is that they have conciously worked to dial things back a notch or two. While they may still be on the “bigger” side of the equation, they are making wines that are quite mainstream for California, IMO. The CdP producers, OTOH, seem to be several years behind the curve, following in KB’s and Loring’s footsteps. I wonder what they’re going to think when they open these wines in a few years time.
Thanks for the notes and thoughts. I had the Clos des Papes last Sunday and my thoughts are very close to your. I might have enjoyed it slightly more because all that was going on but I didn’t find many CdP qualities. It was ultra ripe and hot. The ripeness actually caught me off guard.
What would be some of the profound ones? I would be interested in your opinion.
I have not had many 2007s but the ones I have had definitely lean toward the overripe, pruney side. The 07 Telegraph was nice, solid. But bordering on too big for me and definitely not a 95 point wine. I opened a 2007 Bosquet des Papes the other day and while actually decent I would have been certain it was a $15 CA zin if tasted blind.
The 2007’s I have tasted are marked by an incredible freshness that makes them very different from other
big extracted vintages.
I still get tired after a glass or so of these wines at this point.
Most are monoliths. They are all very ripe fruit and huge in the mouth.
The freshness on the finish is what will make these special with age.
I am going to put a few back.
None of these are overtly hot to me.
I will have to say I am another person who thinks the Clos des Papes is overrated in this vintage.
Only time will tell. (Maybe I am drinking too much Burgundy and it has affected my Rhone palate?)
The Donjon is exceptional and somewhat closed now to me!
I had the Bosquet des Papes Gloire de Mon Grand Pere recently. This one is primary old vines grenache and gorgeous.
I have only two more buys left from 07.
St Jean Combe aux Fous and Charvin.
My buying has been focused on the styles and producers I love.
I love the Papet although I think the wine is overwhelmed by the fruit at this point.
So much so to make it almost unenjoyable. (No garrigue)
There are several other very good wines that share this characteristic.
Sure, these wines are rich and ripe. But I tasted at Pegau and thought the 2007 wines were delicious.
You guys seem to sometimes be so focused on not falling victim to the herd of sheep mentality evident, um, elsewhere that you become a herd of sheep on your own, galloping in the other direction!
I have a glass of the 2005 Gourt de Mautens on the desk right now. Ripe, a bit hot, chewy. Delicious stuff. Clos des Papes 2007 is actually pretty similar, better really, in the same mold.
Does this make it a bad wine? Well, I’m like Alan and prefer CDP in that more complex style, basically. But I can’t help it: this style is nice too, sometimes. Like port but less sweet. And flog me if you want, but I like the 2007 Clos des Papes. Forgive, for I have sinned or something, but the Clos des Papes 2007 is actually a pleasure to drink right now, in its somewhat full-throttle way… Might not age, so I’ll drink it young. But will enjoy it. (Unlike the 2003 from Clos des Papes: now that was a flawed wine)
