Thank you for the suggestion, William. I will be on the lookout for the VV bottling.
Glad to read this. I really liked Stephane Moreau the one time I met him. I hope that things continue to go well so that his family is taken care of.
I actually came into comment about their newest release basic Chablis that I just finished tonight and really enjoyed. the Chablis is not overly complex, but it hits all the notes you want for a regional level chablis and the price.
My opinion, worth exactly what it costs: Fevre is a better producer than Laroche.
Dan Kravitz
William. What’s your macro view of 2017 white Burgundy. All the anecdotal points of view I’m hearing are that it’s as good in it’s own way as 2014. Your thoughts?
You just threw $50 [+ sales tax] at two wines, neither of which you seem crazy about.
In many states, with sales tax [plus whatever time & effort went into getting to the retailer & back home again, such as burning gasoline at $3 per gallon], you’d have easily invested $60 in this tasting.
In retrospect, would you still say that this endeavor qualifies as “Inexpensive”?
[It’s not a trick question - I’m honestly curious whether throwing sixty bucks at meh/mediocre wines makes the hair on the back of your neck start standing up at attention. FTR, I just did the same thing last week - at the exactly the same price points - and I wasn’t thrilled with the results.]
EDIT: We’ve been using this method for more than a year now - I’ll go to the store, and get two [or three or four] wines from the same category [or similar wines which scratch more-or-less the same itch], and we’ll make small pours of each wine, and study them together for about a week, and then we’ll only place a large order for the wines which stand up best under the strain of the extended oxidative analysis.
But we’re on a very rare 2-week losing streak at the moment.
Louis Michel is my goto value Chablis producer. His wines at every level are fantastic and reliable.
Puzzling comments, but I’ll respond. The term “inexpensive” was used relatively and I actually found the Fevre “delicious and recommmended” not meh/mediocre. Cheers.
That’s a big question, but in brief, it’s a lovely white Burgundy vintage. It’s lower in acidity and generally more floral and expressive than 2014, but still nicely succulent, with lots of charm but tension, too. And the wines have become tighter-knit with élevage - something that was especially noticeable at the best Chablis producers I visited, and also chez Guffens-Heynen in the Mâconnais, but also to some extent in the Côte d’Or. It’s quite consistently good from the Mâconnais up to Chablis (with a special shout out, while I think of it, for Vincent Dureuil-Janthial’s Rully whites, which are the best I’ve ever tasted from him). John Gilman compared 2017 whites to 1992, and the more I think about it, the more that makes sense as the best analogy out there. So the style of 2017 is really quite different from the style of 2014, but it is a very high quality vintage.
I have purchased and am purchasing quite broadly for my own cellar: in no particular order, I’ve bought Hubert Lamy, Niellon, Guffens-Heynen, Dureuil-Janthial, J Carillon, a bit of Rapet, Dauvissat, Raveneau, Moreau-Naudet, Sauzet, Marc Colin and will be buying Ramonet, as well as a bit of Coche and Lafon since it’s my daughter’s birth year.
Still, though, I’m curious: In many states, you would have just thrown about $60 at the problem.
Maybe that’s chump change in your household, but to my ear, the adjective “Inexpensive” sounds incongruous [relative to the sum total of your tasting notes].
I think I might have titled it something more like “Expensive Learning Experience”.
Price is a very subjective and touchy subject!
You make some “interesting” points Nathan . . .
Still, though, I’m curious: In many states, you would have just thrown about $60 at the problem.
I didn’t see it as a “problem”; I bought the two Chablis at different times; Each was about $25; I decided to open both at the same time to compare; I drank them over several days; I liked one of them very much; I did not care for the other one; I posted a TN.
Maybe that’s chump change in your household, but to my ear, the adjective “Inexpensive” sounds incongruous [relative to the sum total of your tasting notes.
Nathan, If I asked you to interpret it not as “Inexpensive Wine” but as “Inexpensive Chablis” does that sound less incongruous? Additionally, think of the word in the context of the price of many wines tasted on this forum. I was trying to set expectations a bit - not so much inexpensive to me, but inexpensive in the context of Chablis and in the context of the forum. You are correct that I am in the lower end of this forum’s range of prices paid for wine. My tasting notes will confirm.
I think I might have titled it something more like “Expensive Learning Experience”.
That would have been another way to go . . .
![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
Jim, I think 99+% of readers here would agree with you that these are relatively inexpensive Chablis and make for interesting comparison. Nathan has a bizarre agenda with wine pricing in which he attacks various categories (Chablis having been, oddly, a particularly common target) as being outrageous. He’ll then cherry pick the most egregiously priced wines off of W-S as “evidence” for his position. When presented with ample opinions of wines from other posters who see good value in the category, he has recently quibbled about their critic’s scores as evidence that those recommended, better-priced wines aren’t good enough. I find this approach extremely odd, but at least he’s consistent.
On the other hand, you’ve used Costco pricing, so hardly something that is a one-off deal at a local store, and widely available wines for your comparison. Obviously there are both cheaper and more expensive options, but you happened to try and post about these. All in all your experience is reasonably inexpensive and easily reproducible. It speaks to two recent vintages and two widely distributed producers. So thanks.
My wine budget is quite limited compared to the Berserker norm, but I hardly think that $25 Chablis qualifies as an expensive learning experience, at least around here. It seems safe to say that at under $30 a bottle it’s odd to get called out on WB for wines being too expensive. Personally I think Chablis still offers a ton of value, particularly for a style of wine I really enjoy. '14 and '17 in particular have been strong opportunities to buy excellent wine at decent pricing. My strategy runs more towards going deep when I see a good deal on a producer I like in a vintage I like, rather than buying broadly in every vintage, but that’s just budgetary constraints and the fact that there’s just too much good wine out there I’d like to buy.
It’s relative. These are (somewhat) inexpensive white burgundies. But for they are definitely mid priced for daily drinkers.
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+1 on the Moreau Chablis 2017. My limited tasting of 2017 Chablis so far suggests it is v good (a Julien Brocard tasting recently was excellent).
I mentioned Drouhin-Vaudon earlier as generally preferable and more consistent relative to vintage than Laroche. Brocard Ste Claire used to be on my list but a couple of misses lately.
Jim, I assume that you could afford the wines you bought. Many if not most of us like to try wines that are new to us, sometimes we like them, sometimes we don’t. I don’t think you should have to be called to account to how you spend your money or apologize for buying $25 wines to try. If someone cannot afford these wines, they should not buy them, but how you spend your money is up to you, not up to me or anyone else on the board. Not only was the post that you responded to offensive, but it also has an unnecessary chilling effect on board participation. I learn from posts about wines people like and wines people do not like. I would hate for people to be reluctant to post about wines on this board because some jealous person doesn’t like how they spend their money. Thank you for your posts.
I am interested that you have bought some Marc Colin wines. I have been interested that some stores have been touting the wines of Joseph Colin (does he still make the wines for his father Marc?) when the store is selling the Joseph Colin wines for more than they are selling Marc Colin wines from the same vintage and appellation. Any thoughts between the two producers? Note, I have very much enjoyed the wines of Marc Colin over the years but have not tasted any wines by Joseph Colin, so this is a pure question.
Thanks for the comments, Michael. Re “value” Chablis, I would point you to the negociant level 2017 Fevre Champs Royaux. I prefer the 2017 Domaine bottling that I tasted here, but the 2017 Champs Royaux is very good IMHO and at $16.97 (Total Wine & Costco) is a very good value also. I bought six bottles a couple of months back. (Perhaps even Nathan could agree that this is “inexpensive”, but then again maybe not). Cheers.
Cheers, Howard !
Thanks for the reply, appreciate it.
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We were having grilled shrimp last night, and I felt Chablis was close enough sounding to pair (under the Rhyming Food Doctrine) so poured a 2018 Dom. Laroche ‘Saint Martin’ [Chablis] to drink with them. It had been lurking in the fridge for a while, but had not thrown any crystals, which sometimes happens in our 40F cooler. For my tastes, this blanc is light bodied, crisp but not jarring, and seems to go well with seafood. A little stone and salt here too. I’d give it a B in my ledger. Generally I prefer bigger, more vanilla California chardonnay but would grant that this was better with dinner, since it sounds classier.
