TN: Some New/Old Alsatian Wines...(long/boring)

We tried tonight (10/29/14) some Alsatian Wines:

  1. Dom.Zind-Humbrecht Riesling AC: AGC Brand/Turckheim (12%) 1986: Deep golden/burnished bronze/bit brown color;
    slight oxidized/nutty/toasted hazelnuts very slight gout de petrol/old Rheingau/piney fairly complex nose;
    soft rich/lush rather nutty/toasted hazelnuts slight oxidative/bitter some old Rheingau/piney/buttery very
    slight petrol fairly complex flavor; very long/lingering old Rheingau/butterscotch/caramel/piney slight nutty/
    oxidative finish; not a lot of gout de petrol and more like an old Rheingau and getting a bit tired but still
    an interesting old Riesling. $23.75

  1. Dom.Ostertag Riesling AC: AGC/Muenchberg (14%; MeBaD) 2012: Med.gold color; fresh floral/R some ripe/pineapple/
    mango/perfumed talc some mineral/flinty rather Germanic nose; quite tart fairly rich/lush strong pineapple/
    mango/floral/ripe R light mineral/stony quite ripe flavor; long ripe/pineapple/mango/floral/R/perfumed talc
    rich/lush/glycerined slight mineral/stony finish; a big/ripe R that seems very overpriced and not likely
    to make wonderful old bones. $57.50 (KK)

  1. Dom.Zind-Humbrecht GWT AC: A (MaD; 14%) 2012: Med.light gold color; very intense floral/cheap hair oil/
    Vitalis/lychee/spicy bit carnations/gardenias/floral quite attractive nose; fairly tart rather rich/lush strong
    ripe/cheap hair oil/lychee/GWT bit floral/gardenia ripe flavor; bit metallic/tart strong GWT/hair oil/lychee/
    lush/ripe some floral/gardenia finish; lot of ripeness but good acidity and should age into something interesting;
    my favorite of the Z-H’s; reasonably priced at $26.50 (KK)

  1. Dom.Ostertag GWT Vignoble d’E (11%) Epfig 2013: Med.gold color; some lychee/GWT/spicy very ripe/overripe/lush
    rather simple nose; very soft/fat rather sweet (2%-3%) light lychee/hair oil/GWT pineapple flavor; med.long
    soft/fat/flabby rather sweet/ripe/lush/overripe light lychee/hair oil/GWT finish; a soft/fat/boring/simple
    lightly GWT wine that should bring down shame on all Alsace; way overpriced (natch, KermitLynch) at $37.49 (KK)

  1. ReneSchmidt GWT AC: A (Reserve; CuveeParticuliere; 12%) Riquewihr 1986: Med.dark gold/burnished bronze color;
    lovely spicy/old GWT/cinammon/nutmeg slight earthy/piney/smokey quite complex beautiful old GWT nose; slightly
    tart beautiful old GWT/spicy/nutmeg bit smokey/piney slightly bitter complex flavor; very long/lingering slight
    butterscotch/caramel spicy/old GWT/nutmeg some piney/herbal/smokey very complex finish w/ a trace of oxidative/
    bitter notes; a beautiful example of an old/mature Alsace GWT.

  1. BottFreres GWT AC: A CuveeExceptionnelle (12%) Ribeauville 1988: Med.gold color; slight musty/funkey/mousey/
    earthy some old GWT/spicy/nutmeg/piney rather strange nose; slightly tart/bitter/metallic slight mousey/funky/
    musty/earthy slight old GWT/spicy flavor; med.long slight old GWT/spicy/nutmeg some mousey/earthy/funky finish;
    this btl has not done well and not nearly as good as another btl a week ago. $10.40

  1. Dom.Zind-Humbrecht GWT Reserve (MaD; 13%) LeonardHumbrecht/Wintzenheim 1988: Med.gold color; low-key bit
    earthy/smokey some lychee/GWT/spicy/grapey lush/ripe nose w/ little complexity or evolution; lightly tart
    rather grapey/lycheee/GWT lush/ripe/simple slight metallic/bitter flavor w/ little development; med. light
    grapey/lychee/GWT/hair oil/lush slight metallic/bitter finish; still some GWT fruit but shows little in the
    way of evolution or complexity; on the simple side & disappointing. $11.30

  1. Dom.Zind-Humbrecht GWT AC: AGC Hengst/Wintzenheim (13.5%) 1988: Med.dark gold color; slight musty/funky some
    grapey/lychee/GWT rather low-key/quiet some spicy nose; soft/lush/ripe/rich slight off-dry quiet/lychee/GWT/
    grapey simple flavor; med.long soft/ripe/lush/rich mouthfilling/glycerined light/simple GWT/lychee finish;
    still plenty of ripe/lush GWT fruit but not much interesting for a 26-yr old Alsace GWT. $22.40

  1. Dom.Zind-Humbrecht GWT AC: AGC Goldert/Gueberschwihr (13%) 1988: Med.dark gold color; rather smokey/pungent/
    piney fairly grapey/lush light GWT/lychee/hair oil ripe/youthful bit complex nose; soft/fat/ripe/lush/youthful
    light GWT/grapey/lychee/hair oil flavor; long/lingering slight old GWT/spicy some youthful/lychee/GWT/hair oil
    bit complex finish; shows a slight degree of complexity/evolution you’d expect of a 26-yr old GWT, but mostly
    a lot of quiet/youthful/lychee/GWT character; my favorite of the Z-H’s but not mind-blowing. $26.35

  1. Dom.Zind-Humbrecht GWT AC: A ClosWindsbuhl/Hunawihr (14.5%) 1988: Med.dark gold color; strong spicy/GWT/lychee/
    hair oil slight old GWT/spicy/cinammon/nutmeg bit ripe/alcoholic/over-the-top nose; soft/fat/lush/glycerined
    slight spicy/old GWT/nutmeg strong grapey/lychee/hair oil/GWT maybe off-dry quite youthful flavor; long soft/
    fat/lush/ripe strong lychee/GWT/hair oil slight oldGWT/spicy/nutmeg bit off-dry big fruit/youthful finish;
    shows a bit of evolution buut still loads of youthful GWT fruit. $22.49

  1. Dom.Zind-Humbrecht Tokay PinotGris AC: A ClosJebsal/Turckheim (14%) 1988: Med.gold color; strong lush/ripe/
    pineapple/mango/grapey slight spicy/nutmeg rather interesting nose; soft/ripe/lush/fat/mouthfilling slightly
    off-dry ripe/mango/pineapple/grapey loads of youthful fruit flavor; very long soft/fat/lush quite ripe/mango/
    pineapple slightly sweet intense PG fruit somewhat grapey/simple quite youthful finish; still a young wine
    w/ loads of ripe PG fruit but almost complexity/evolution for a 26 yr old Alsace wine. $19.70

  1. BottFreres GWT Tradition AC: A (12.5%; RS: 6 on 1/9 scale) 2011: Med.light yellow color; slight volatile/
    pickle juice some fennel/dill/peppery light GWT/lychee somewhat interesting/atypical nose; soft/fat/flabby
    strange dill/fennel very sweet slight GWT/lychee flavor; med.short soft/fat/porky way sweet slight GWT/
    lychee finish; pretty miserable example of Alsace GWT; what a disgrace for such a hallowed name. $30.00 (vLA)

  1. AlbertBoxler Sylvaner AC: A (13%) 2007: Med.gold color; strong ripe/pineapple/R-like/mango/lush/flowery slight
    earthy/dusty fruity/attractive bit simple quite pleasant nose; soft/ripe/lush strong mango/pineapple/fruity
    slight earthy maybe off-dry pleasant flavor; med. soft/lush ripe/pineapple/mango/flowery/fruity finish;
    a pleasant enough wine but a bit on the simple side & showing little evolution or even potential thereof.
    $19.20 (vLA)

The ole BloodyPulpit:

  1. BottFreres: We bought a ton of the BottFreres GWT/Riesling, both CuveeExceptional & ReservePersonnelle in
    the '76 vintage when it came thru EsquinImports. Around $6/btl. I had this same GWT '88 about a week ago and
    it was sensational…a beautiful classic aged Alsatian GWT. I was expecting great things of this wine (#6)
    tonight. Alas, the btl was off/strange and not particularly good. But it was way more interesting than the
    porky dreck that was the '11.

  1. Z-H: I recall back in the early '80’s when the Z-H wines started getting huge scores out of Monktown. I tried
    and as totally dazzled by them. They had an intensity of fruit that was quite different from other Alsatian
    wines of that era. Because of the huge scores, I bought a bunch of them. This is my last stash of those early
    Z-H’s. This was, of course, before OlivierHumbrecht took over from his Dad, before organic, before biodynamic.
    But the style had already been set in motion of harvesting later, lowering yields, higher alcohols, emphasis
    on Grand Cru vnyds, occasional RS. And high prices.
    Because I was so dazzled by those early Z-H’s, I thought, because of their intensity of fruit, that they
    would make lovely old bones, the way that Alsatian GWT/R routinely would do in the '70’s. Big fail on my part.
    What struck me about these '88 Z-H’s, is the amount of fruit they still showed at 26 yrs of age. They only
    hinted at the complexity that I’d routinely find from Alsace. The R showed little signs whatsover of the gout
    de petrol that I love in old R.
    I will not deny that Z-H raised the bar for GWT/R/PG (as well as the prices and Monktown scores) for all
    of Alsace. For a single producer to accomplish that for an entire region is astounding. If your definition of
    great Alsatian wine is an intensity of fruit, then Z-H most assuredly makes great wines. If your definition of
    great Alsatian wines is one that makes great old bones, like they used to do routinely back in the '60’s-'70’s,
    then I’m not convinced that Z-H makes great wines.

  1. Ostertag: When I first started trying Ostertag, I was quite taken by their austerity. Not a lot of R or GWT
    fruit, lots of terroir-driven/mineral character, and bone-dry. They were not very pleasant to try upon their
    release, but I was confident they would make great old-bones. Many of them did. Some never seem to come
    around and remained austere their whole life.
    These were the first Ostertags I’d tried in at least 10 yrs. I was shocked at how overblown they seemed
    and lacking in acid. Will probably never revisit Ostertag in my lifetime.

  1. The Dismal State of Alsatian Wines: A couple of weeks ago, I tasted 3 '88 Alsatian GWT’s. That prompted the
    rant I’ve quoted below. I was, of course, pilloried for not worshiping at the altar of Z-H. But this tasting
    did nothing to change my view of Alsatian wines. I won’t deny that Z-H and others are making the greatest,
    most profound, wines ever to come out of Alsace. But when I want to sit down to my TarteFlambe or weenies &
    kraut and want a good/tasty GWT to accompany it, and not spend a ton of $$'s, it’ll be a Helflich or a Boxler
    or a basic Trimbach or a RollyGassman that I reach for. Or spend $25 for a great AltoAdige GWT. But if I want
    to dazzle my friends w/ the power and extract that a profound/great Alsatian GC GWT can show, I’ll go for a
    ClosWindsbohl and spend the $100+ that entails. And just how sad is that???

Tom

Tom, I have to admit that I don’t always follow the “logic” of the bloody pulpit commentary.

So are you saying that you are disappointed because Z/H wines are no longer “fit” for choucroute. I mean, I’m not Olivier, but I have met him several times, and I’d like to think he aspires to produce great white wine that competes with the likes of Hirtzberger or Pichler (as just two examples that came to me quickly). The Clos Windsbuhl or Clos Ste. Urbain sites are Alsace’s version of Vom Stein or Singerriedel.

We all have different uses/intentions for wine - I have actually opened Giacomo Conterno’s Cascina Francia Barolo to pair with a pizza pie on more than one occasion - who cares what the wine costs as long as you enjoyed it?

Or am I totally missing your point here somehow?