I think Tom needs to try it in Magnum, because the larger format will be TWICE AS GOOD>!
Showed it to three more winos this afternoon. They were repulsed.
I have a winemaker friend in Calif to whom Iāll send a sample and heāll run the VA numbers on it. Iām sure itās well above the 0.14% allowable limit. Iāll report back the #'s.
Tom
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Only Radikon I had was 2007 Jakot in 500ml bottle.
At the time I was a wine buyer. It was really vile, no need to go into how bad it tasted. When I spoke to the salesman about it, he said it was supposed to be that way.
There are some fine wines from Dressner, the Radikon Jakot was a punishing joke.
I think Dressner had a lot of punishing jokes!
Chateau Musar is a great example of what a fellow WV winemaker calls āthe kiss of corruptionā, when speaking to how small amounts of āflawsā can make a wine more interesting and enjoyable. I generally liked Chateauneuf-du-Pape more back in the day when reasonable amounts of Brett would often, IMO, make the wines more interesting and also strip a bit of the opulence out of the fruit. And if itās a small influence, both pediacoccus and brett can make a wine more interesting. With our use of whole cluster, my wines are almost always near the threshold for perception of VA and that presence definitely lifts the aromatics and adds a layer to the wines(IMO).
A ākiss of corruptionā was often a part of many great traditional wines, not because they were ānaturalā but because traditional winemaking didnāt have access to ozone, cross-flow, asper nigellus, or any other of the tools and techniques for controlling microbial issues. For a long time egg whites and regular racking would have been among the only options, and the year round cool temperatures of caves would have been an incredible advantage. You can basically see the disappearance of Brett in the large majority of Willamette Valley wines beginning around 2005 as ozone and steam both became available for small wineries. When I started in 2002, the presence of brettanomyces was one of the more common flaws(though often when it was a modest influence the wines would still be very good. These days, itās something one hears about fairly rarely.
But the idea that wines that are riddled with EA, VA, mousiness, and a host of other flaws, including simply being oxidized, are āthe way the wine was supposed to beā is just foolish. It is like removing all of the safety features in race cars and then running the race and saying that whatever carnage occurred is just the way it was supposed to be.
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Clearly the most interesting TH TN thread Iāve found.
Great thread. I presume you wine retailer would be fine with the āitās supposed to taste like thatā excuse when heās served a piece of spoiled fish, because thatās the way spoiled fish is supposed to taste
Just think of this as lutefisk!
Well, Davidā¦good point. I doubt he would accept it. However, in asmuch as he runs the ArroyoVino restaurant & some customer
complained about a spoiled fishā¦he might very take that tack!!
Tom
So I was preparing the sample btl to send to Calif. It was a small btl the TablasCreek olive oil came in (187 ml). On the side of the btl was a small/clear plastic decal w/ the TCV logo on it. I overpoured & some of the Radikon ran down the side of the btl. I stoppered up the btl and went about my tasks. Some 10 min later, when I looked at the btl, the clear plastic label had turned solid black. Guess that Radikon is one pretty fierce solvent!! Think what it must be doing to your insides!!
Tom
Almost without fail, I have found this to be very true. ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
In todayās NYTimes:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/29/dining/drinks/great-wines.html?action=click&module=Well&pgtype=Homepage§ion=Food,
Eric tries to define (not very successfully) what makes a wine great.
And important part of what makes a wine good (or great) is if we can find something in it we recognize. Itās like you are walking down the street
and two people are walking towards you. One is Lady Gaga (say) and the other is your Mom. Which one brings more pleasure to your heart
when you see them?? I know for danged sure it wouldnāt be Lady Gaga, even if she was wearing a see-thru top.
Thatās what makes some of the weird stuff I taste so difficult. If itās totally out of my realm of experience, I really have trouble evaluating it.
Even if its a Radikon Rosso & I know Iām supposed to like it because thatās the way itās supposed to taste (as I have been told).
Tom
I follow, but am unwilling to be dogmatic about it. The āgreatestā wine Iāve ever tasted was the first example of that type of wine I ever had. Even to this day, my opinion on that wine remains the same, despite now having had many various examples of that wineās type.
Even if its a Radikon Rosso & I know Iām supposed to like it because thatās the way itās supposed to taste (as I have been told).
Tom
![[rofl.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/a/a7452fcd8e675af869f8da01174474a545b03944.gif "rofl"){kind=small}
I do have to say, Iām a big believer in āIf you like it, then itās (at least) good (for you),ā and I always give room for differences in palate preferences (i.e.: just because I, or some other person, or some highly-respected critic, or God, says itās great does not necessarily mean you are going to like it, or even should like it). That said, I do believe there is something to be said for a general consensus among those who āknow what theyāre talking about.ā
Martinās point struck a chord with me because I have lived that experience many times over with folks (usually family members) who almost always spend less than $20 per bottle, and frequently less than $10. Probably the biggest surprise was a few years ago when we discovered my mom enjoys French Cab Franc. ![[wow.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/7/7d450e9830889c8943b674446a21b7254cad657e.gif "wow"){kind=small}
Never liked the reds from Radikon. The Sivi Pinot is pretty good, but there are better orange wines out there, like Paraschos and Terpin.
You know what else is? Itās also known as āthe universal solventā. Water!
Think what it must be doing to your insides!! 
Well, I bought a bottle at the cafe around the corner from our shop.
Yes itās volatile, but I found that mostly on the finish, I found the sharp tannins a little more obtrusive than the VA.
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2018 Radikon RS - Italy, Friuli-Venezia Giulia, Collio (02/12/2021)
Dark purple, some Xmas spice but lots of ripe purple fruit. 14% alcohol and quite big in every way. It is volatile, but that was mostly seen on the finish, the tannin is a little sharp, very big sweet fruited. Full of character and not for all, but enjoyable for sure.
Posted from CellarTracker
In a way not unlike a Bonneau Speciale, full throttle.
YMMV
Thanks for taking one for the team, Russell.
I wouldnāt be surprised if there are differing lots of this wine distributed across the country.
But it doesnāt sound particularly pleasant, either.
Tom
Possibly. Also transport probably comes into it.
It wasnāt what I would normally pick, just the 14% would put me off at lunch. But this bottle was certainly enjoyable if full on.
ā¬65 in a restaurant.
For context, would you mind naming some producers or specific wines that generally do find unenjoyable because of excessive faults? Iād be especially interested to know examples that are because of excessive VA, but I know thatās getting pretty specific and that itās often a combination of things that makes a wine unenjoyable. Since your shop specializes in natural wines, I suspect youāre more tolerant to some of this stuff than most other people. The only wine on your website that might support that is Radikon Jakot, but I donāt know if Iāve had that vintage. I am not familiar with most of the other wines you carry, other than a few whites that always seem clean to me and I really like. Iām a lot less tolerant of VA/EA than a lot of people, so Iām not saying my opinions are the best benchmark either. I always keep in mind how much individual sensitivities can vary. I would be very surprised if more than a tiny percentage of wine drinkers enjoy the Radikon Jakots that Iāve tried, though. They have smelled and tasted like they might make me sick, literal gag reflex.
Well, I invest a lot of time and thought into wines I buy for myself and for the shop.
I donāt often find issue with VA so whilst somewhat tolerant I easily recognise it. A recent Egon Muller AGK was adored by most around me but I found it very volatile.
There are two wines Iāve poured away after a few sips in recent months, both were due to Brett, or something else leading to quote fecal notes. One was a sparkling White from Burgundy, the other a German red.
Iāve more personal experience with the Slatnik and Oslvaje than the Jackot, but have tried them all several times and always enjoyed them.
They have a small but strong following here!
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