TN+R: '70 Marey-Monge RSV (Leroy)

[Claude_Kolm]

@Kenneth Brown

Interesting Claude. What I am curious about is whether this was the only bottling at that time. Or did DRC own a separate plot then, or did they use purchased fruit from another Marey-Monge parcel to sell under their own label?

The prior to taking the lease on the Marey-Monge plot, the Domaine had never made an RSV, Kenneth.

[Claude_Kolm]

@Kenneth Brown

From what I read, she didn’t start with them until '74.

She and Aubert de Villaine took over from their respective fathers in 1974, but they certainly were active in the Domaine by 1971 and before.

[Gerhard_P]

@Claude Kolm

There is a portion of the Marey-Monge plot that the Domaine has always deemed inferior and the wine has never gone into the Domaine’s RSV, always been sold off to negociants. That presumably is the source of this wine.

Claude,
Yes, they often sold off the juice from an inferior part, but what makes you think THIS is it? If there´s Marey-Monge on the label (I guess the usual golden one with the medals) it´s the DRC-bottling … they didn´t use the DRC-label before 1971 … at least I´ve seen only 1971 with both types of labels.
The DRC-name should be at least on the neck-strip-label …
It might be that DRC sold off the wine from the inferior parcel already in 1970 - but that patch would never be called “Marey-Monge” - and IF bought by Maison Leroy it would bear the usual white leroy-label.

@Ricard Osborne

So things just get curiouser and curiouser … I just looked the wine up on cellartrackertm and there is a label loaded for the 1970 wine which looks, if memory serves, the same as the bottle I own. It actually lists Domaine Marey-Monge as the maker and Leroy as the distributor. It also looks like there are two wines for 1970 for Marey-Monge RSV, 1 the wine I am own (with the label I described) and a separate DRC wine (no label shown on CT). …

I´ve seen the two version for vintage 1971, but not 1970 … I think the DRC-label is a slightly later release (not decades, only years later). I can´t imagine that there is any difference in the content …
The practice was to bottle all the wine (of a certain Cru) in one go - and label the bottles accordingly when sold or at least shipped. So the later shippings have the (new) DRC-label …

@Michael Bowden

The DRC and the MM bottlings are the same. DRC made the wine and I’m sure it had to have been part of the lease agreement that MM got some of the juice. I’m not sure when this ended but I know there was a MM and a DRC label in 71.

Part of the agreement was that MM had to be quoted as proprietor. Wine-maker was DRC … and Leroy the distributor.
MM didn´t get any juice for sure because there wasn´t any winemaking at MM anymore … at least after 1964/65 … that´s why the owners made the lease!

[Gordon_ZenMasterOfZin_Ng]

Apparent 1963 MM RSV with Leroy as distributor:

http://vintage.browse.jp/bottles/pict.php?key=68580981612255

Multiple pictures (including backlabel written in English for this American imported bottle):

1970 MM RSV

http://www.winecommune.com/lot.cfm/wine/1970-Marey-Monge-Domaine-Romanee-St-Vivant-Vosne/lotID/12020260.html

see quotes in last post on this page linked below, from where I can’t ascertain…perhaps from link to Francoise’s site?

http://viiniweb.net/keskustelu.php?select_subject=1&select_thread=611&page=54

Perhaps someone like Francoise, should ask Aubert about this?

Good details here:

Profile: Domaine de la Romanée-Conti & their vineyard work

^see map showing the 4 sections of RSV.

In 1966, Mlle Marey-Monge, the last of her line, leased the remaining family-owned vines (the majority of sections 2 and 3) to the Domaine de la Romanée-Conti – some 5.28 hectares or 56% of Romanée-Saint-Vivant’s total area – they (the domaine) were also given the option of ‘first refusal’ should the holdings of the Marey-Monge estate come-up for sale. In 1988 the Neyroud family, who were the heirs to Mlle Marey-Monge, approached the domaine and a deal was done.



Such a large area of vines, unsurprisingly, is anything but homogenous. The domaine, for many years, kept the négociants happy with barrels of Romanée-Saint-Vivant, and > the domaine’s own wine was often a blend of different qualities> . When Aubert de Villaine took control in 1991 he decided to tackle the vines of Romanée-Saint-Vivant in a much more systematic way than had been done before; by vinifying each section separately he was able to focus on where action was required. He describes the vines as ‘a patchwork of different plantings’. Much replanting was to be done, and naturally with the grandchildren of Romanée-Conti.

http://liquorshop.co.jp/SHOP/A1023010-1972.html

1972 MM RSV with H. de Villaine/DRC neck label

[paul_hanna]

Bingo.

My '71’s look like this.

I know I have had the '72, positive it was the same also, and pretty sure the '70 was as well…

[Claude_Kolm]

@Gerhard P.

@Claude Kolm

There is a portion of the Marey-Monge plot that the Domaine has always deemed inferior and the wine has never gone into the Domaine’s RSV, always been sold off to negociants. That presumably is the source of this wine.

Claude,
Yes, they often sold off the juice from an inferior part, but what makes you think THIS is it? If there´s Marey-Monge on the label (I guess the usual golden one with the medals) it´s the DRC-bottling … they didn´t use the DRC-label before 1971 … at least I´ve seen only 1971 with both types of labels.
The DRC-name should be at least on the neck-strip-label …
It might be that DRC sold off the wine from the inferior parcel already in 1970 - but that patch would never be called “Marey-Monge” - and IF bought by Maison Leroy it would bear the usual white leroy-label.

Gerhard - From the title, I presumed that the bottle under discussion was a Maison Leroy wine (and label) that was identified as coming from Marey-Monge. If the label is as pictured above, then that clearly was an incorrect assumption, thereby nullifying my comment.

[Peter_Chiu]

@Nick Gangas

Was Madame Leroy running DRC then ?

Nick…not really as Madame Leroy never ran DRC by herself.

As I remember Madame Leroy, was for a while, the co-manager fo DRC.

[Richard_Osborne]

WOW… Put a little “+” after the tasting note request and look what you get. This is absolutely amazing – what a community. OK now for the apology. I am sorry I confused this issue with the Leroy red herring. What stuck in my mind was the little Leroy strip at the bottom of the MM label. I have no idea why I did not notice or remember the neck tag. My bottle looks just like those shown.

I took a couple pictures this morning and will post them when I have time to figure out how to do it (I don’t have anywhere to host them so I will have to sign up for flickr or something). I had a client dinner which went late last night and back to back meeting s this morning. I will take the time to do it this afternoon. The least I can do after all the time everyone else has put into this.

THANKS again – so much. As I stated before, this is a perfect example of why I, and I suspect many of you, love this crazy wine thing.

[Peter_Chiu]

@Claude Kolm

@Gerhard P.

@Claude Kolm

There is a portion of the Marey-Monge plot that the Domaine has always deemed inferior and the wine has never gone into the Domaine’s RSV, always been sold off to negociants. That presumably is the source of this wine.

Claude,
Yes, they often sold off the juice from an inferior part, but what makes you think THIS is it? If there´s Marey-Monge on the label (I guess the usual golden one with the medals) it´s the DRC-bottling … they didn´t use the DRC-label before 1971 … at least I´ve seen only 1971 with both types of labels.
The DRC-name should be at least on the neck-strip-label …
It might be that DRC sold off the wine from the inferior parcel already in 1970 - but that patch would never be called “Marey-Monge” - and IF bought by Maison Leroy it would bear the usual white leroy-label.

Gerhard - From the title, I presumed that the bottle under discussion was a Maison Leroy wine (and label) that was identified as coming from Marey-Monge. If the label is as pictured above, then that clearly was an incorrect assumption, thereby nullifying my comment.

Gerhard…I think we should alert Alan Chan that this is a fine example that info on Label is useful …specially to Burgundy-nuts ( like us )…

[Richard_Osborne]

As promised here are the photos of my bottle – with a neck tag clearly stating DRC oops. Sorry for the blurry pictures, a combination of my poor photography skills and taking the photos with my iphone. I also tried to take a picture of the color of the wine. I held the bottle up to the light and it was like looking through a flawless ruby. The most beautiful color I can imagine. Unfortunately the photo did not work out. I know that means the wine will likely be on the delicate/feminine end of the spectrum and that is fine by me.

The one question I still have is: Why if the bottle is clearly labeled Domaine Marey-Monge is it ok to have the “Mise du Domaine” on the Marey-Monge label? Did DRC also get rights to the Dom. Marey-Monge name as part of the lease? I don’t blame you if you are done answering my inane questions but I thought I would give it a shot anyway.

[Kenneth_Brown]

@Ricard Osborne

The one question I still have is: Why if the bottle is clearly labeled Domaine Marey-Monge is it ok to have the “Mise du Domaine” on the Marey-Monge label? Did DRC also get rights to the Dom. Marey-Monge name as part of the lease? I don’t blame you if you are done answering my inane questions but I thought I would give it a shot anyway.

As I understand it, Marey-Monge was still a domaine then. They stopped making the wine themselves in 1965, and from there DRC vinified the grapes from that parcel. But the contract was such that they paid DRC to make the wine, but sold it as Marey-Monge. So DRC put the top label on but it was still a Domaine Marey-Monge wine. I think the mise du domaine part is simply that that it was Marey-Monge fruit from there vineyard and sold under their label. Anyway, I am sure someone will correct what I have wrong- just participating here to learn a bit as I had a bottle with the exact same markings. I am guessing that this means that you can have someone else do the winemaking and elevage, but still bottle it under your own label. We see this all the time with Hospice de Beaune wines, so I assume it is true.


Claude, thanks for the clarification.

Also, I guess I made one small mistake earlier when I said the only better provenance would be from the domaine itself. In fact Bern’s (or say Glamis) might be the only other place for better provenenance of old wines lol. Not many people keep them at 40-50 degrees.

With this bottle, I would really try the augmented Paul Savage/Audouze approach. Open it 5 or 6 hours early. Take a very small taste. If it smells/tastes good, recork and leave standing, If it is kind of lifeless and/or funky, leave the cork out and let it stand in the cellar for a few hours. This can do wonders with old wines. And then, appreciate it for what it is- don;t serve it right after a blockbuster fruit bomb, and eat with it something like a really good simple roasted chicken without much else to distract. My bottle I would have scored maybe 87-88 points on the palate alone, but the nose was 95 points or better. So somewhere in the middle if you want to go that road, but really a bottle like this is more about the experience (unless you drink lumber every other night, then I could see it being rather ordinary). Frankly, I enjoyed it much more than plenty of somewhat mature 95 point or so mature Bordeaux, but to do so, I suppose you must have your anti-flavor elite card and be able to appreciate a wine intellectually and not just hedonistically. I hope it is great! Cheers…

[Gerhard_P]

@Kenneth Brown

@Ricard Osborne

The one question I still have is: Why if the bottle is clearly labeled Domaine Marey-Monge is it ok to have the “Mise du Domaine” on the Marey-Monge label? Did DRC also get rights to the Dom. Marey-Monge name as part of the lease? I don’t blame you if you are done answering my inane questions but I thought I would give it a shot anyway.

As I understand it, Marey-Monge was still a domaine then. They stopped making the wine themselves in 1965, and from there DRC vinified the grapes from that parcel. But the contract was such that they paid DRC to make the wine, but sold it as Marey-Monge. So DRC put the top label on but it was still a Domaine Marey-Monge wine. I think the mise du domaine part is simply that that it was Marey-Monge fruit from there vineyard and sold under their label. Anyway, I am sure someone will correct what I have wrong- just participating here to learn a bit as I had a bottle with the exact same markings. I am guessing that this means that you can have someone else do the winemaking and elevage, but still bottle it under your own label. We see this all the time with Hospice de Beaune wines, so I assume it is true.

No, as far as I´m concerned Marey-Monge leased the vineyard to DRC in 1966 - the latter worked the vineyard, made the wine and distributed it (most but not all of it via Maison Leroy). DRC paid Marey-Monge a certain share for the vineyard … in mondey and not in wine.
I also think it was part of the agreement that MM has always to be on the label - so DRC first simply used the old label - and since (app.) 1971-72 used the new DRC label (with Marey-Monge below RSV). My guess is that the early releases of 1971/72 got the MM-label, the later releases the new DRC-label.
It´s not completely clear to me how the “Mis du Domaine” has to be read legally - perhaps "bottled on (the) a Domaine … as DRC is A domaine … to distinguish it from a negociant bottling.
perhaps that´s also the resaon why they had to change the label.

Part of the agreement between MM and DRC was also the right to get the first offer of buying the vineyard - which happened in 1988.