TN: Most of the 2015 Northern Rhones worth a damn, blind

[Zachary_Ross]

With all due respect to the thread starter, whose notes are excellent, I have to state the following:

A list of “Most of the 2015 Northern Rhones worth a damn” that does not include anything from:

Guigal
Chapoutier
Jaboutlet-Aine
or the producer I represent

is an absurdity.

Dan Kravitz

Those are all must-passes for me every year. No thanks!

[IlkkaL]

Dunno how smart it was but I just ordered 2017 Les Cessieux based on this thread. Thanks OP for the awesome notes.

[Claus_Jeppesen]

Thanks Adrian for enjoying all these great wines for the team
Brilliant notes
It was pretty predictable thar Guigal, Chapoutier etc was omitted

[Robert.A.Jr]

With all due respect to the thread starter, whose notes are excellent, I have to state the following:

A list of “Most of the 2015 Northern Rhones worth a damn” that does not include anything from:

Guigal
Chapoutier
Jaboutlet-Aine
or the producer I represent

is an absurdity.

Dan Kravitz

Those are all must-passes for me every year. No thanks!

Not only do I not like Guigal or Chapoutier, I have none in my “cellar,” which is about 30% Northern Rhone. I have like three bottles of Jaboulet. Clearly they have fans, though. I would suspect that someone who adores this style of Northern Rhone, will not like Levet.

Dan, what producer do you represent?

[William_Kelley]

Barge’s 2015s are a little woody…

Still just released, and with a long lifespan ahead, should integrate, no?

Perhaps… But I would buy 2016s in preference at this address.

[Claus_Jeppesen]

With all due respect to the thread starter, whose notes are excellent, I have to state the following:

A list of “Most of the 2015 Northern Rhones worth a damn” that does not include anything from:

Guigal
Chapoutier
Jaboutlet-Aine
or the producer I represent

is an absurdity.

Dan Kravitz

Those are all must-passes for me every year. No thanks!

Not only do I not like Guigal or Chapoutier, I have none in my “cellar,” which is about 30% Northern Rhone. I have like three bottles of Jaboulet. Clearly they have fans, though. I would suspect that someone who adores this style of Northern Rhone, will not like Levet.

Dan, what producer do you represent?

I think it is Cave du Tain so the poster is trolling

[Robert_M_yers]

Regardless of whether any singular producer should have been included, we must admit that the thread title is a bit off. There are clearly a significant number of worthy wines not included in this tasting. There were even some included that don’t fit the title, but that’s the fun of blind tastings I guess, if you only include the best in name, how can you be challenged.

[CFu]

With all due respect to the thread starter, whose notes are excellent, I have to state the following:

A list of “Most of the 2015 Northern Rhones worth a damn” that does not include anything from:

Guigal
Chapoutier
Jaboutlet-Aine
or the producer I represent

is an absurdity.

Dan Kravitz

Those are all must-passes for me every year. No thanks!

One of the guys in my group used to own a ton of guigal lalas. We had a Northern Rhone dinner with old juge, gentaz and verset. He brought a 90 La Mouline.

At the end of dinner he sits back and says “I’m selling all my lalas”. Immediately sent every single bottle to auction.

[Markus_S]

Barge’s 2015s are a little woody…

Still just released, and with a long lifespan ahead, should integrate, no?

Perhaps… But I would buy 2016s in preference at this address.

Let’s say we buy BOTH and see?

[A_So]

One additional point I want to make with respect to the tasting here: at the end of the day, I trust Clape, Chave, and Jamet far more than my own palate.

[Markus_S]

One additional point I want to make with respect to the tasting here: at the end of the day, I trust Clape, Chave, and Jamet far more than my own palate.

Trust your palate. It’s always SPOT ON…93 you and me!

[ky1em1ttskus]

Super helpful notes. Some surprises and some not so surprises. Thanks.

[Ethan_Abraham]

The 16 Cessieux is delicious as well. Definitely a different style, much lighter and not in need of much cellar time, but still meaty. That 15 gonon is ridiculous, we did a blind 15 Rhone dinner last year and it was by far the easiest to call.

[G_Shields]

Barge’s 2015s are a little woody, 2016 and 2014 are more interesting. An estate in (positive) evolution.

Really? I tasted there in July and did not have an impression of oak… but you did say woody, so maybe you are describing something else!

Looking at my notes, I had written ‘smokey’, so perhaps that might cover the similar impression, but in any case I found the Combard and Cote Brune really super.

Whatever the conclusion, I think we can probably agree they are not modern, vanilla oaky anyway…

[Zachary_Ross]

I buy Barge every year, so I’ll look forward to the 2016s.

[Ray.Tuppa_sch]

One of the guys in my group used to own a ton of guigal lalas. We had a Northern Rhone dinner with old juge, gentaz and verset. He brought a 90 La Mouline.

At the end of dinner he sits back and says “I’m selling all my lalas”. Immediately sent every single bottle to auction.

Not sure what you consider “old” but a number of vintages of Guigal’s La Mouline from the '60’s and '70’s have, imnsho, no peers in the Rhone Valley. Have had vintages from the other producers you mention from the '70’s and '80’s and I’ve never had a wine that approaches those Guigals.
That said, not a huge fan of younger LaLa vintages although to my recollection I haven’t had anything younger than 1999.

[CFu]

One of the guys in my group used to own a ton of guigal lalas. We had a Northern Rhone dinner with old juge, gentaz and verset. He brought a 90 La Mouline.

At the end of dinner he sits back and says “I’m selling all my lalas”. Immediately sent every single bottle to auction.

Not sure what you consider “old” but a number of vintages of Guigal’s La Mouline from the '60’s and '70’s have, imnsho, no peers in the Rhone Valley. Have had vintages from the other producers you mention from the '70’s and '80’s and I’ve never had a wine that approaches those Guigals.
That said, not a huge fan of younger LaLa vintages although to my recollection I haven’t had anything younger than 1999.

Different strokes for different folks. The wines I listed and Guigal LaLas are just made in a completely different style.

I’ve had plenty of 80s-early 90s la la. I’d rather have 80s-early 90s verset/juge anyday of the week (which I’ve also had my fair share of).

Not having tried 50+ year old guigal precludes me from having an informed opinion when I’ve had signifcant data points in 25yr+ old comparisons.

Maybe in 25 years we can compare 90 verset to a 90 la la and put it to bed when they both have 50 years+ on them like the 60/70s lalas do

[Ray.Tuppa_sch]

One of the guys in my group used to own a ton of guigal lalas. We had a Northern Rhone dinner with old juge, gentaz and verset. He brought a 90 La Mouline.

At the end of dinner he sits back and says “I’m selling all my lalas”. Immediately sent every single bottle to auction.

Not sure what you consider “old” but a number of vintages of Guigal’s La Mouline from the '60’s and '70’s have, imnsho, no peers in the Rhone Valley. Have had vintages from the other producers you mention from the '70’s and '80’s and I’ve never had a wine that approaches those Guigals.
That said, not a huge fan of younger LaLa vintages although to my recollection I haven’t had anything younger than 1999.

Different strokes for different folks. I’m sure my opinion is held by many others in this thread.

I’ve had plenty of 80s-early 90s la la. I’d rather have 80s-early 90s verset/juge anyday of the week (which I’ve also had my fair share of).

Don’t think not having tried 50+ year old guigal precludes me from having an informed opinion when I’ve had enough data points in 25yr+ old comparisons.

Charlie,

As I stated “Guigals…from the '60’s and '70’s” and followed that up with “…not a huge fan of younger vintages…” so I already agreed with you. That said, if you have zero data points for '60’s and '70’s Mouline you can’t make an informed opinion on them compared to the other producers from the '80’s and '90’s.

[CFu]

Not sure what you consider “old” but a number of vintages of Guigal’s La Mouline from the '60’s and '70’s have, imnsho, no peers in the Rhone Valley. Have had vintages from the other producers you mention from the '70’s and '80’s and I’ve never had a wine that approaches those Guigals.
That said, not a huge fan of younger LaLa vintages although to my recollection I haven’t had anything younger than 1999.

Different strokes for different folks. I’m sure my opinion is held by many others in this thread.

I’ve had plenty of 80s-early 90s la la. I’d rather have 80s-early 90s verset/juge anyday of the week (which I’ve also had my fair share of).

Don’t think not having tried 50+ year old guigal precludes me from having an informed opinion when I’ve had enough data points in 25yr+ old comparisons.

Charlie,

As I stated “Guigals…from the '60’s and '70’s” and followed that up with “…not a huge fan of younger vintages…” so I already agreed with you. That said, if you have zero data points for '60’s and '70’s Mouline you can’t make an informed opinion on them compared to the other producers from the '80’s and '90’s.

If you’ve had zero data points of 60s juge or verset how can you make informed opinions either that the guigal is better?

The best comparison we can make is tasting similar vintages of producers side by side to make an assessment.

[Dan_Kravitz]

Thanks and damn to Claus Jeppesen for identifying the producer I represent. Thanks for mentioning IMO one of the very great producers in the Northern Rhone, in fact the planet (if you ain’t had 'em, don’t knock ‘em’; Produttori Barbaresco gets some love here, Cave de Tain should too). Damn, because I was going to ask Mister Zachary Ross the name of the producer that is a “must-pass” for him.

I guess a part of my gripe with the post is that there is exactly one Hermitage listed. OK, you don’t like the big guys: You are in a very small minority. But what about Sorrel, Faurie, Yann Chave?

FWIW, before I accepted the agency for the Cave de Tain, I hosted two blind horizontal tastings with sommeliers. No, I didn’t have the small producers in there, just the Cave de Tain, Chapoutier, Chave (the big one) and Jaboulet-Aine. Even if they are all unworthy, my tastings showed that they are equally unworthy. That’s was the deciding factor in accepting the agency. I know that this board could not possibly host any wine snobbery.

Dan Kravitz