Thanks for pointing this out. Very useful.
You nailed it here, Michael. Underripe is very different than taint. Some prefer ripe, fleshy, powerful red Burgundies. That is not the 2011s. I bet that this 2011 and an ocean of others are superb in 15-20 years.
I find it very odd that you continue to deny ladybug taint in 2011 based on the logic “I can’t taste it, so it isn’t there”. Maybe you just like to keep insinuating that Kevin doesn’t know what he’s talking about (or quite a few other very experienced tasters who have also mentioned the taint in 2011s). Some 2011s definitely have the same issue, but not as many, and none that I’ve had in such concentration as most 2004s. Of course, you neglected to include the part of what Michael wrote that is far more reasonable than your stance on the topic:
People can draw their own conclusions, and I’m sure I am not convincing you, but I’ve seen you post this sort of thing repeatedly and figured I’d put my own opinion out there this time.
+1
its funny how a lot of my french friends are skeptical of the critically acclaimed super ripe vintages like 2015 and do not shy away from stocking up on ‘lesser’ vintages. i even had a very interesting conversation with a sommelier at le bristol in paris who was so keen on 2004s. he believed that with time they would become very classical burgundies of elegant proportions. i myself prefer to stay away from the extremes but am not hesitant towards ‘off vintages’. i have noticed some issue with a few 2011s but the note on the de montille seems especially harsh. i am very curious to try one and see for myself.
As to your first sentence, you assume far too much - both the concept of ladybug taint and that it exists in 2011. As to your second sentence, I have insinuated nothing. Kevin is wrong that the 2011 vintage is tainted. There is far too much evidence of good wine for the vintage to be tainted. Michael’s speculation is just that. You’re right, you are not convincing me and all are free to express their own opinion.
Indeed. Here, however, bigger is always better.
There is a reason why there are so many 04s are listed on French and American restaurant wine lists while other vintages are all sold. The LBT note has not dissipated in the 04s. Beside the taintg, the 04s lack energy and purity.
It is obviously tainted. Just like TCA or brett, you may not be too sensitive to it which actually is not a bad thing.
I agree wholeheartedly on your statement. I have been stating from the early on that the 11s are not badly affected as the 04s and posted a number of positive TNs. However, coming after the 10, the 11s were quite expensive and considering the potential taint, there was no reason to buy the 11s.
For my palate, the 11s lack energy and purity. I have posted a number of responses to Martin that I liked the 01, 08, 13 and 14, not that he really cares. In the dinner, the 05 Dujac was one of my top two wines. It was surprisingly the softest and most red fruit driven wine.
Yes, I like quite a few wines from the vintages you listed, especially '14. Clearly none of those are highly ripe or powerful vintages, but in none have I found even a hint of the 2004 problem that clearly exists in some 2011s. I even find herbal notes in quite a few 2013s, but not that same greenness that exists in most '04s and many '11s. As for the '11s in which I don’t find that tainted aroma, I usually still prefer the same wines from most other vintages. As a side note, that same problem is rampant in Champagnes from 2011, more so than in Burgundies from that vintage.
That is good to know. BTW, the fact that we can argue over LBT tells me that we are all very blessed.
However, I recently drank a great Lafon Meursault Perrrières 2004, as great as it was when I tasted it by the barrel …
Slightly affected by LBT (a rooty Suze impression, enough to guess the vintage), but with a magnificent long pulsation.
LBT obviously affects both red and white. For my palate, LBT is not as bothersome in white.
My last great disappointment with a LBT affected red Burgundy : Rousseau Chambertin Clos de Bèze 2004.
Bad bitter taste and really undrinkable …
This was a great dinner, but all of the reds were too young, in my opinion. Fun, interesting, sure; maybe even somewhat pleasurable from a hedonistic point of view. But I don’t really feel like I “get” Malconsorts as a terroir, or even really producer style - based on what the wines will taste like in maturity - after this.
The wines tasted like they are from Vosne. I agree that they, except the 05 Dujac, need another decade or two to reach the peak.
One might say Scott Claffee is malcontent about the Malconsorts dinner.
I love Rousseau and treasure each time I get to try one on my county employee budget. I’ve had 2004’s from other producers that were green but OK. I’m not oversensitive to it. I opened my one bottle of Rousseau Ruchottes 2004 this year expecting a little green and pretty good but weak flavored because of the vintage. It was foul. Undrinkable. Three hours later no change. Not a flawed bottle. Worst wine of any kind I’ve ever had that wasn’t damaged.
I don’t think LBT expresses in green at all, it is smell equivalent of scratching on a chalkboard.
As I wrote, LBT refers for me to bitter vegetal smells and tastes : Suze, gentian, roots …
It’s of course a personal cognitive approximation (for 2004 and also 2011).
Beaune Chouacheux Chantal Lescure 2004 : LBT, augmented vegetal tastes (celery, asparagus).
Other red burgundy 2004 sometimes display LBT through very earthy intonations.