TN: Foradori Teroldego '21... A Revisit

https://wineindustryadvisor.com/2022/06/08/biogenic-amine-toxicity-a-reality-for-histamine-sensitive-consumers/

Speaking of SO2, I have always felt that the work of this woman, Sophie Parker-Thoimson, deserves wider play.

Elisabetta Foradori’s first (and only?) husband was a character named Rainer Zieroch, pardon the spelling.He decided that teroldego needed lots of lees contact, so he got Taransaud to make a barrel shaped like a cigar. With the same staves they could have made a 600L hogshead but he wanted a small head…hence a very expensive wine called the cigar. He also had them make a long round cask that was impossible to maintain. Rainier was good at ordering expensive wines and drinks, only to discover he had forgotten his wallet…RIP.

One more reason to be cautious about low- and no-sulfur wines.

I have had many a glass of wine ruined by a fruit fly. You will know the smell if you are ever around a mass fruit fly death scene.

Ugh! The first f’ing sentence is false.

There are quite a few potential causes for reactions to wines. There was an excellent report quite awhile (15 years?) ago listing the main ones. Biogenic amines amounted to 70% of the cases. SO2 was near the bottom of the list, maybe 3%? (Don’t quote me on that. Maybe it was slightly higher, like 5%.) The easy test to dispute the SO2 myth is many foods have much higher levels of SO2 than wine, so someone with genuine SO2 issues will be well aware of their issues, not casually scapegoating SO2 for a wine reaction. Anyway, starting this article out with misinformation is unnecessary and unhelpful. Of course, natural wine folks claiming natural wines don’t cause headaches is false, too.

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I guess we have to define ‘informed wine consumers’. I myself am pretty informed but have to think hard to come up with the words ‘biogenic amines’. Of course, Sophie PT didn’t write that sentence.Her point is that SO2 brings down the level of BAs.

I had a girlfriend in the 70s who told me I should smoke a certain kind of cigarette because there were not additives and therefore I wouldn’t get cancer. MY MD said, you have two choices …breathing and staying alive by quitting smoking…or… I took his advice! I am sure one of her relatives is saying something about wine without SO2 being wonderful.

Speaking of the 70s, I remember the level of SO2 used in wine back then as amazingly high. Every now and then, somebody here posts about a 70s Chardonnay that has aged amazingly well…well, total SO2 well over 100 will do that.

Wes,in the study you mention, what were the other causes of headaches??

Yeah, but you can say histamine and people will understand. You can be accurate and say something like “histamine and other biogenic amines”.

Like the bottles of '81 La Crema Vinera Vin Gris of Pinot Noir I have that are still good. Good acid from being picked for vin gris, oak aging and massive SO2 will do that.

Of course there’s a big difference between wines made for sitting around for years on liquor store shelves and wines made with the expectation of proper handling. A difference between wines that need to show well out of the gate and not intended for aging and wines made with the intention of being aged decades to show their best. There’s a place where no or very low SO2 makes the best wine, but that’s not for most wine, and not the best choice for an amateur winemaker.

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I remember Chianti Classico being suggested for people with allergies due to lower histamine levels. Perhaps due to white grapes in blend?
When I was talking about high so2 levels in 70s wine s I was thinking of whites that were protected from oxygen at every racking etc. When must oxygenation etc became popular then SO2 levels dropped dramatically.

How dare you photograph me whilst I’m taking a bath!

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In a red wine, that is called Clos de la Roach.

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Or a domestic muscat?

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What about a domestic muscrat??