Damn, how seriously good is this?!? I’ve actually never tried a Luneau-Papin wine before but the CT notes on this were so convincing that it was a no-brainer to get a bottle to try. I didn’t perhaps expect this level of ripeness but it totally works here as it is still a 12.5% ABV wine with great acidity and salinity. While prices of Sancerre are going up a good deal and Burg prices are through the roof Muscadet remains very affordable with even a wine like this from a top producer and a top site being available for less than 20 €. Back up the truck!
2020 Domaine Luneau-Papin Muscadet de Sèvre-et-Maine Sur Lie Terre de Pierre Butte de la Roche - France, Loire Valley, Pays Nantais, Muscadet de Sèvre-et-Maine (12.5.2023)
The nose is uncommonly ripe-fruited for Muscadet with ripe lemon, a hint of honey and lots of stonefruit. It is quite savory with a healthy dose of leesiness and very nice overall. On the palate it is also quite rich and lush with a degree oiliness to it. Quite atypical for Muscadet, then, but at the same time it sports a great acidity, is very savory and highly drinkable. The leesiness and remarkable minerality are very present on the palate as well. There is also borderline electric tension and vibrancy that I find very admirable considering the ripeness. Truth be told, this is a ridiculously nice bottle of Muscadet that delivers on every level. I guess it has a good potential for aging but it is just so delicious right now that I cannot imagine it getting downright better.
That should be part of my “Wines you like but don’t buy thread”. Luneau-Papin, Gadais Père et Fils, Domaine du Haut-Bourg are all Muscadet that I drink and enjoy immensely. In a more linear style, Domaine de l’Écu and Domaine de la Louvetrie are also very good. Which again bears the question, why don’t I buy and hold any of it?
Thanks for making me take notice and great note. Cheers.
I buy or have bought most of those at one time or another. I don’t “hold” them because I don’t think that most Muscadet improves very much. What likely keeps me from buying more is Pepiere is just so damned good and consistent at approximately the same price as the others that it dominates my Muscadet consumption and purchasing. Good list overall though and I’d add Landron.
Can’t believe i forgot Pépière in that list! Thank you for that. La Louvetrie is Jo Landron. I thought all his Muscadets were under that name but looking at the website it seems they’re not. CT lists Amphibolite under La Louvetrie but not the Jo Landron website. As for holding them, i didn’t mean for the long term either. Although old Muscadets can be quite good, it scratches a different itch.
Yeah, the whole Louvetrie / Landron thing is odd, and appears to be something of a peculiarity to Muscadet, or at least more common there. Also sometimes in Beajolais those odd dual naming conventions seem to occur, i.e. JP Brun / Terre Dorees and Vissoux / Chermette.
I’m generally not much on older Muscadet, much preferring it for its razor sharpness in youth. I know that many disagree, it’s merely my preference. Some few of the top wines seem to at least develop some additional complexity with midterm aging without losing their incision, but I don’t find it that common.
Muscadet certainly seems to be changing in the past couple of vintages due to climate change. '20 Pepiere Pepie was delicious, but it was full of ripe, white fruit. '21 Pepiere Briords, while less ripe, had notes of green fruit. I didn’t get very much in the way of saline, citrus notes that I remember from vintages back in the late-aughts and early-10s.
Don’t get me wrong: the wines are still great, but great in a different way from what I remember when I first fell in love with Muscadet. The times they are a changin’.
I’m fairly torn about aged Muscadet. I generally agree with you that most of the time, I prefer the vibrancy and cut of Muscadet when they are young.
But, then again, I drink a wine like an '07 Pepiere Clisson last year that reminds me that you can get incredible depth, complexity, and nuance with aged Muscadet, so long as it comes from a good terroir and underwent good winemaking in the right vintage.
My first experience with aged Muscadet comes from a late '90s Luneau-Papin L d’Or ('97 or '99 I think) at around 10 years of age – definitely rounder and slightly softer, but it compensated with this intricate dance of herbal complexity and minerality on the palate.
Granted, I’ve only really had experience with aged Pepiere and Luneau-Papin at around 10-15 years of age, so I can’t really speak about other producers like Landron or 'Ecu, but a brilliant '89 L-P L d’Or I had with 25 years of age gives me hope that the '02 and '05 Bregeon Reserve White Labels I have still have plenty of life and vivacity in them.
My own experience with aged Muscadet is very inconsistent. Sometimes they are wonderful, then at times they can be dull and woolly - not tired or oxidative, just sort of meh. They’ve aged, but haven’t really developed anything interesting, only lost the vibrancy and purity of the fruit without getting anything in return.
And I have no idea if there is rhyme or reason to this. Sometimes one vintage from one producer might turn out quite lovely with age and another vintage of the same label at the same age has turned just dull and listless.
This sounds about right to me. I’ve had great luck and consistency with Luneau-Papin L d’Or, but haven’t really tried other cuvees with age.
Less experience with aged Pepiere, but folks I trust swear by Clisson and Briords with age; and that '07 Clisson I had was excellent.
Who knows about other Muscadets? Common denominators with successful aged Muscadet in my experience are a granite terroir (L d’Or apparently has a granite bedrock but clay and schist above the bedrock) and at least 8-9 months on the lees (L d’Or has 9 months on the lees while Clisson has 2 years).
But, this could all be coincidence. I’m not sure whether you can get equally good results with a gneiss terroir (I have heard good things about aged Gorges with its gabbro terroir, which is why I picked up the Bregeons) and the lees thing could just be a function of the better Muscadets being on the lees for a long periods of time to begin with.
Agree with the general tenor of this thread in regards to aging. I experimented with aging some. They live just fine but they do not get better. Just different. In the case of the Briords they got worse for my palate. That big minerality that it displays while young fades out. The softer, richer character it gains is without the complexity to make it worth while.
Cheers Ilkka, sounds excellent - I love Muscadet but strangely enough, I have never tried a Luneau-Papin so I shall track down that one!
Ageing Muscadet is very much down to individual taste. I do enjoy the new crus a lot and find that they do gain complexity with age, but I would say that the result is different rather than necessarily better. The complexity is very subtle and I find they are best tasted on their own.
Otherwise, I did try cellaring some Jo Landron Haute Tradition 2010 about ten years ago. It was fine for four years, but by five it had simply gone over the hill and was completely flat.
I suppose the problem is, as you say, the good ones are delicious young so why take the risk?
Just had this yesterday. It was an eye opener for some for sure. First guess was Burgundy but the next one already Loire, however Guiberteau Saumur instead of Muscadet. Then came Boulay Sancerre just before @Otto_Forsberg nailing Muscadet and getting close with the vintage as well (2014). A rather good performance for a 12 year old white I had paid 12 € for.
2012 Domaine de la Pépière Muscadet de Sèvre-et-Maine Clisson - France, Loire Valley, Pays Nantais, Muscadet de Sèvre-et-Maine (6.4.2025)
Fresh and bright on the nose with notes of lemon, grapefruit, leesy yeastiness and wool. Ever so slightly honeyed, markedly minerally. On the palate it is similarly lively and nuanced. While not primary it remains admirably youthful and spry with good intensity and lift. Good length too and little to no weight.
It was reminiscent of the 2010 Pepiere Cuvée 4 at age ten, although that one was richer. In this blind environment what was useful was the fact that the Clisson was in such a heavy and wide bottle that it could trick people thinking of Burgundy (instead of the tall, narrow bottle of Briords). In comparison with this one I find it surprising that the 2015 Briords seems to have declined heavily already, could be a vintage thing of course.
Much as Briords is my favorite Muscadet when young and I stored some for quite a while I haven’t found them to age as well as their clisson or the LP l d’or
