I agree. Extremely elegant wine. The Boisee red
I tried the 2014 Boisee. There are many great things coming out of this wine in some years
Had this tonight and thought it was awesome. Have always liked Loire CF but not a ton of experience outside some Breton. Loved the fruit especially assuming this was a hot year like everywhere else. Seems “old world ripe’ in the best way
I’m a huge baudry guy…but the two aren’t comparable.
That’s in the eye of the beholder IMHO - Baudry closer to Rougeard in my taste than for instance Roches Neuves. At least based on my experience with Rougeard and more limited experience with Baudry and Roches Neuves. But again, my personal view and you can debate the meaning of “closer”.
I’ve been trying to get Matthieu to bottle the red in magnum for years but he says that there isn’t enough wine to justify a separate bottling run. The only magnum I’ve ever seen was a 2008 magnum he sent us as a wedding gift. I wonder if 2008 was a birth year for one of his children or something.
Grézeaux is usually available in magnum. I’ve also never seen a Clos Guillot magnum.
I’m seeing the 2017 Clos Guillot in magnum as we speak, don’t know about past vintages though.
Cool! Also, the Domain bottling comes in magnums.
In what way?
I’m not Faryan, but am obviously about to chime in. Also have to add that I know that I’m at least as huge a Baudry guy as Faryan.
I’ve found Rougeard wines, owned/drank sporadic vintages since 1995 (mostly Le Poyeux) and the last being the 2008, to be exceptional in texture and purity. The levels of structural complexities offered and seamlessly-knitted together in Rougeard wines are something that I’ve not had with any Baudry wines that I’ve sampled to date.
Granted that I can’t recall having had Baudry earlier than 1999 vintage, but I’ve found aged/matured Rougeard to be crazy good and the experiences are at levels that I’ve not had in other Loire-based cab franc of the same age, most of which are already good in their own rights.
Just my $0.02.
edited: not a difference maker in the light of the question, but will add anyway that Baudry is Chinon and Rougeard is Saumur.
Haha I misread that as stating that Baudry was not comparable to Breton. The Rougeard makes sense and explanation I agree with!
Since you brought it up and to get a sense of Breton wines and with my lesser experience with them, can you differentiate/compare Baudry and Breton?
I know that Breton dabbles beyond Chinon.
It me.
I would call Breton a Bourgeuil producer who dabbles in Chinon. I have little experience with their wines after they jumped from LDM to Kermit, but the 1995s through 2002s have shown great nuance and class on a par with Baudry Grezeaux from those years, which I’ve generally preferred to Croix Boissée.
Thanks for the info.
LDM?
Sorry, LDM is Louis Dressner McKenna, who originally imported the Breton wines until they switched to Kermit Lynch, which I’ve long believed to be a mistake.
Mike, is this just because of pricing? I believe KL has a lot better nationwide distribution than LDM, but I’m guessing there. I guess we’d have to ask Pierre and Catherine how they view it?
Marshall, while pricing always seems to be an issue from the consumer’s perspective when a producer goes to Kermit, I think it turned out to be a mistake for Breton for a few reasons. First, I think their reputation doesn’t seem to be as strong as it used to be, particularly when compared to Baudry and Clos Rougeard which used to be part of the same portfolio. I’m also not convinced that Kermit’s wider distribution serves Breton any better than LDM’s, as their wines don’t seem to have much greater availability.
All that said, my relationship with LDM goes back more than 20 years, so I have a definite bias. I’ve also heard from several people that Pierre and Catherine have acknowledged that leaving LDM was a mistake, but I can’t confirm the accuracy of those reports.
Thanks for the thoughts Mike. Is their reputation dependent on the importer, though, or just trends/fads in the wine biz? While I used to sell the Breton wines, it was always tough to sell most Loire Valley reds in Oregon, so I wonder if it’s that way across the country (with the exception of the major markets) and if it’s only a small percentage of geeks who even care about the wines overall?
I’m not sure about the broader market, but Breton used to be every bit as well-regarded as Baudry in Loire geek circles and deserved that reputation. Now, even on this forum, references to Baudry are frequent and positive while references to Breton are comparatively rare. I think the importers have a good bit of responsibility for both.
Dressner did a good job of promoting both Breton and Baudry and brought members of both families over fairly often for events. The Dressner tours never made it to Atlanta, but as a Loire geek I was always aware of them and the vintners who were there, particularly the NY ones. Kermit may be bringing the Bretons over as well, but I can’t recall seeing any references to events with them.
I have quite a bit of 1996 to 2002 Bretons left and most that I’ve opened in the past several years have been exceptional. On the other hand, I have very few recent vintages while I have a lot of recent Baudry. One important reason for the difference is that I haven’t seen many discussions about recent Bretons that would encourage me to seek them out. I also haven’t seen many offered at retail in comparison to Baudry and the few I’ve seen have been at prices that further quenched my enthusiasm, both of which can be laid at least partially at Kermit’s feet.
It may be more specific to my market, but my experience is that when a producer moves to Kermit, their wines become harder to find and the prices go up, often to the point that I’m no longer willing to buy them. I hate that one of my favorite producers got Kermitified. Here are some reasons why:
1996 Catherine et Pierre Breton Bourgueil Les Perrières - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Bourgueil (8/16/2019)
Exhibiting terrific complexity and grace, with nuanced dark fruit, spice, and a soupçon of bell pepper, supported by fine tannin and well-integrated acidity, it is exceptional now but with no sign of fading. (94 pts.)
1998 Catherine et Pierre Breton Chinon Les Picasses - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Chinon (4/18/2019)
Corked. NR (flawed)
2002 Catherine et Pierre Breton Bourgueil Nuits d’Ivresse - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Bourgueil (9/27/2018)
A delightful melange of dark fruit and savory earthy and poblano peppery notes, it represents what I love about Loire Cabernet Franc, while it is drinking extremely well now, it is in no danger of dying. (93 pts.)
1997 Catherine et Pierre Breton Chinon Les Picasses - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Chinon (6/10/2017)
BeaujoLoire Blowout (St. Cecilia, Atlanta, GA): More fruit driven and intense than the Filliatreau, though not quite as complex, with blackberry and a hint of green pepper. Amazing. (94 pts.)
1997 Catherine et Pierre Breton Bourgueil Clos Sénéchal - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Bourgueil (11/7/2015)
Fairly sweet cherry fruit with a little leather but minimal green pepper, it is pretty much at peak. (91 pts.)
1999 Catherine et Pierre Breton Bourgueil Clos Sénéchal - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Bourgueil (1/4/2014)
Breton, Texier, and Puzelat: An initial burst of brett blew off quickly, leaving well-knit tart red fruit, leather, and a little minerality as constants, while over few hours a pleasant herbaceousness flittered in and out. It’s in a nice place right now, and would be dangerously easy to drink if the 11.5% alcohol shown on the label was much higher.
1996 Catherine et Pierre Breton Chinon Les Picasses - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Chinon (9/30/2012)
Older Loires: Corked. NR (flawed)
1997 Catherine et Pierre Breton Bourgueil Clos Sénéchal - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Bourgueil (9/30/2012)
Older Loires: Ripe blackberry fruit sits on a pleasing earthy/leathery foundation that keeps it from getting out of hand, while a touch of green pepper adds more complexity without being unpleasant. It is drinking well now, but I’m in no great hurry to finish my remaining bottles.
To add to Mike’s discussion with my own view:
At least in NY, which I think was a very important market for both Baudry and Breton in the ‘90s and 2000s, both producers were featured in the Louis/Dressner portfolio. Both considered by many of us to be on the same level. And Joe was a showman. He promoted the wines personally and forcefully. He was also helped in this by the retail community, such as David Lillie and Robert Callahan at Garnet and then CSW, Jeff Connell and successors at Astor (including Greg Dal Piaz), and others. And both producers did travel to New York and the US regularly for many years as part of Joe’s promotional efforts and as a celebration of the good work his growers were doing - Matthieu and Bernard, Pierre and Catherine. Joe also personally traveled around the country to promote these wines.
In this context, Breton’s switch from LDM to Kermit was around the time Joe got sick, and the switch was taken personally and internalized by many of us who had supported Joe, Denyse, and Kevin. There were details that were not pretty. Suffice it to say, it left a bad taste in the mouths of many wine geek supporters. I can’t know if these feelings were very widespread, but such Loire Cab Francs are relatively small production wines that weren’t as popular 10 years ago as they are today.
After the switch I never bought a single bottle of Breton at retail. (Now, I have only 96, 02, 04, and 05 remaining in the cellar.). I know many others in the NYC wine community who felt and acted the same. I can’t know for sure, but I believe the abandonment by previously regular supporters was an unexpected market setback for the Bretons, exacerbated by Kermit’s pricing and different approach to wine promotion and marketing. In my mind the Bretons have never regained the status they had achieved before the switch. And I personally don’t know the wines because I won’t buy them.