so which one of you got the case of 2011 collier charpentrie for $28 per from the collectible fine wines xmas sale ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
I only discovered this wine in the 11 vintage. I’ve been buying it ever since. I haven’t tasted the 15. Though none of these wines won’t go for some time, I’ve been drinking too many of the 11s and 12s, and they both have never failed to give pleasure.
I don’t know how to answer Nathan’s question about whether they are better than various of the Baudry cuvees. When wines are at a certain level, I stop comparing them qualitatively. It’s like asking if Mozart isn’t really better than Brahms. But maybe he means that the Plouzeau isn’t at that level, and then, I guess, we just disagree.
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After Falltacular sometime, I’ll be able to try this wine and write a crappy tasting note, so Alfert stops nagging me
Lol, like a note from you would cause a run on the market! 
And this stuff is way too nuanced for Fu.
I’m very curious about this. I saved half the bottle for tonight and/or tmrw. to see if extended air helps it. I rated the '13 to 83 points last night, which is pretty damning from me. Without the (apparent) oak issues, I’d see it in the low 90s.
I think you misspelled ‘cheap’
He said that a few years ago when I recommended Gonon. And look at grasshopper now. #soproud.
Counselor…my note on the 2011 Plouzeau has been posted…
Popped another tonight even though I said I would stick these away for 10 years after my last note upstream in this thread from January 2019. I’m like a walking talking contradiction, but was all curious right now and hyped up on all the Loire threads lately, half of which are started by my British BFF, Julian.
Drinking this 2015 Plouzeau side by side with the last 1/4 bottle of the 2014 Rougeard Les Clos from last night. The Rougeard is more herbal, more density, more silky. A really silky soft wine. The Plouzeau has more nervous energy, more buzzing intensity. Both are archetype Chinons. The Rougeard is a better wine tonight, the Plouzeau is just a hair behind. A see more upside with time on the Rougeard than I do on the Plouzeau. That could be the vintage, with 2014 being more classic with greater depth of materials, and 2015 being riper with more forward fruit and youth. I do not think 2015 is over-ripe, just to be clear. Both of these are very balanced wines.
Thank you very much for the updated note, Robert. I was able to buy a few bottles of this at the winery last year for what I think is a very reasonable price (28 Euro). It was one of the few wines they weren’t pouring, which is understandable. I really want to pull the cork on one, but I’m going to try to resist and hold off a few more years at least.
You don’t find the Plouzeau to be super oaky? That was my experience with both the '13 and the '12; massive disappointments to my palate (although I give a pass to the '13).
EDIT: nevermind. I see we already discussed this up-thread. You were surprised to hear my reports.
I have a couple of 2009s and 2010s of this. When would you drink them.
We discussed this on your 2013 thread. We all taste what we taste, so I cannot refute, nor would I even question, your impressions. What I can say unequivocally, however, is that I do not find this wine even remotely over-oaked. Like not even a hint. I’ve had multiple bottles of every vintage of this wine since 2009. Never experienced what you did, but again, that’s my palate. I do not believe that this wine sees any new oak. Does anyone know whether that is correct?
The 2017 is (barely) available – seems like that should be a good vintage for Loire cab franc, right?
I’d love to know the answer to your question, Robert. Hopefully somebody chimes-in.
ETA: I just spent about an hour searching through 10 to 15 pages of Google results with no luck. Next step, I suppose, is to email the producer directly. If it’s not oak I’m tasting, I’m awfully curious what it is.
Robert, you’re doing a great job - excellent idea to compare these two. Fascinating to read that the Plouzeau can compete with a wine which costs four or five times more, and I’m probably underestimating the price difference. If only the FDP was actually available! Just to reassure all of you, it’s no easier to find in France - I managed to track down 4 bottles of 2014 last year, but I’ve never seen it since and it never appears at auction. As to the oak question, I cannot find the source anymore, but I remember reading somewhere that the barrels are not new.
It’s a funny thing about American lawyers called Robert and Junior - they do like their wine. You should start a website or magazine - bearing in mind your fondness for the greener tastes in wine, you could call it The Wine Avocado!
Actually, it’s quite weird - your taste is the polar opposite to the Emperor’s - like the Force and the Dark Side - perhaps one day soon a monster will emerge from the everglades, muttering “You are my s-s-son-n-n…”!
Howard, even the best of us are sometimes tempted…I suppose one needs to taste the forbidden fruit once or twice to remember why green apples are the best. Mind you, if he starts acting like Hayden Christensen, we’ll know it’s time to switch channels.
I don’t know that man, that person. I’ve clearly been hacked.