TN: 2013 Thomas Pinot Noir Dundee Hills

[Mark_R]

As someone more recently joining the Thomas bandwagon (3 years), I think the ‘reclusive/eccentric’ characterization stems from the mystery/intrigue in getting on the list: no website, email (or so I thought, there actually is one, it’s just not well publicized), but mail a physical address, which in today’s society seems ‘eccentric’. There’s a lot of word-of-mouth involved, and quoting the person who put me ‘in the know’: “people don’t really know how to buy it” (and if they don’t know how to buy, then the seller has to be ‘eccentric’).

[DougS]

Searching the Berserker site for mentions of Thomas Pinot, I saw this. I bought a case of the 2014 and interestingly I also noted the spritz/tang (not the usual nomenclature to describe wine, but apt!). I thought this made the wine very unique and that it actually had a positive contribution towards making it one of the best Willamette pinots I’ve had, so I wouldn’t want to shake it to eliminate the spritz, but wonder what effect this could have on cellaring?

Since this is probably from microbial activity happening in bottle, it makes aging questionable and will lead to inconsistency.

Not necessarily so, and not even likely so.
As the good scientist Al Osterheid noted years ago;

A mild spritz is often just from dissolved CO2, which is more soluble at cellar temperature than room temperature. This seems to be particularly true with pinot noir which winemakers generally try to not move around too much (racking, etc) because pinot seems much more affected by exposure to oxygen.

Lots of California pinots have a mild spritz. Put your hand over the top and shake, then listen for the pffft when you remove your hand. If I can detect it when I taste, I just decant with a funnel that spreads the wine to the sides of the decanter and wait a bit.

But yes, as ITB’r Wes Barton also noted in the same thread from years ago;

In addition to what’s been said, it can also be produced by “bad” yeasts or bacteria, which would produce off odors. I gather this was historically more often the case. Cleanliness pretty much eliminated that issue.

Filtering can eliminate any living yeast and bacteria cells, preventing a secondary fermentation. (Though I’d generally prefer the unfiltered wine and accept the risk.)

For wines that are vulnerable to a secondary fermentation, proper storage is imperative. Temperature and time are the factors that can get it going. (I guess you could say with some wines the intent was to leave them vulnerable. That would make petillance in them a provenance flaw…)

So which is more likely in the case of John Thomas the man and John Thomas the wine? I’ve been buying Thomas every single year, no exceptions, since '04. I agree there is bottle variation and I have had some that were strangely dilute and lacking flavor. But I have never had one that had off-odors.

I’ve tasted the wine, and there’s something microbial going on. MLF bacterial activity gives me a weird metallic sensation before going into full-on sour beer territory, and I get that here. I have never seen this with other vintages. Have you tasted any spritzy bottles of this vintage? It seems odd to think my claim is unlikely based on what you posted.

[DougS]

Most importantly, Kirk’s note shows obvious signs of microbial activity, likely both MLF bacteria and brett. Sour beer is especially a dead giveaway and couldn’t really be anything else but bacterial activity.

[Richard_T_r_i_m_p_i]

Consumed the 2013 over a period of 3 days. My particular bottle was unflawed and showed fresh and red fruited…lots of cranberry and red briar fruit with secondary OR “woodsy” notes and hints of black cherry. The fruit is sweet but not jammy or raisined. Plenty of balancing acidity. No noticeable heat. Hopefully, the number of underperforming 2013s is limited.

RT

[MitchTallan]

Consumed the 2013 over a period of 3 days. My particular bottle was unflawed and showed fresh and red fruited…lots of cranberry and red briar fruit with secondary OR “woodsy” notes and hints of black cherry. The fruit is sweet but not jammy or raisined. Plenty of balancing acidity. No noticeable heat. Hopefully, the number of underperforming 2013s is limited.

RT

Thanks Richard! Thanks for scouting it out as I let mine sit some more.

[Gary_Ahearn]

Consumed the 2013 over a period of 3 days. My particular bottle was unflawed and showed fresh and red fruited…lots of cranberry and red briar fruit with secondary OR “woodsy” notes and hints of black cherry. The fruit is sweet but not jammy or raisined. Plenty of balancing acidity. No noticeable heat. Hopefully, the number of underperforming 2013s is limited.

RT

Thanks Richard! Thanks for scouting it out as I let mine sit some more.

+1 Richard! As John thinks his wines are best at the 8-10 year point, I too will wait before I open the first of six.

[Warren_Taranow]

I opened my first one of these tonight. I remembered this thread and was a little worried. Our bottle tonight was electrifying. No CO2 that was noted upthread, this had dense fruit lit up by a jolt of acidity (rather than fizz). Red earthy raspberries, sour cherries, and a dense floral note. Long finish. If this is a typical Thomas Pinot, count me as an admirer.

Cheers,
Warren

[Richard_T_r_i_m_p_i]

• 2013 Thomas Pinot Noir Dundee Hills - USA, Oregon, Willamette Valley, Dundee Hills (2/8/2019)
  There’s a spritz/tang on the palate that’s not what I’d hope for.

Opened a bottle last night and the spritzy tingle was appreciable. No visible effervescence. The wine seems otherwise unflawed so not sure what the story is. The tingle faded by this afternoon. Plenty of fresh floral, conifer and red fruit with unmami/mushroom underpinnings. Balanced with restrained ripeness. Good acidity. The pop-n-pour mouthfeel is disappointing IMHO but the wine stages a comeback with some aeration and patience. It’s quite tasty and youthful.

Not my usual M.O. to consume these < 10 years, but the spritz concerns me for longer term aging. Still primary, yet drinking well…not much of a sacrifice.

RT

[Richard_T_r_i_m_p_i]

@Richard_T_r_i_m_p_i

• 2013 Thomas Pinot Noir Dundee Hills - USA, Oregon, Willamette Valley, Dundee Hills (2/8/2019)
  There’s a spritz/tang on the palate that’s not what I’d hope for.

Opened a bottle last night and the spritzy tingle was appreciable. No visible effervescence. The wine seems otherwise unflawed so not sure what the story is. The tingle faded by this afternoon. Plenty of fresh floral, conifer and red fruit with unmami/mushroom underpinnings. Balanced with restrained ripeness. Good acidity. The pop-n-pour mouthfeel is disappointing IMHO but the wine stages a comeback with some aeration and patience. It’s quite tasty and youthful.

Not my usual M.O. to consume these < 10 years, but the spritz concerns me for longer term aging. Still primary, yet drinking well…not much of a sacrifice.

RT

Opened another one last night. Still mildly spritzy…perhaps slightly less than June 2022. Seems to be in decent shape otherwise. I tried to discern some other sort of flaw…nada. The cork was stained quite high up along the sides…but no leakage. Enjoyable if weird for Thomas.

RT

[Chris_Seiber]

Although I know shaking and/or long decant time can eventually get the fizz out of red wine bottles, I almost never end up liking wines that started out that way. They usually have weird metallic or other flavors, and just never seem fully right.

[Richard_T_r_i_m_p_i]

@Chris_Seiber

Although I know shaking and/or long decant time can eventually get the fizz out of red wine bottles, I almost never end up liking wines that started out that way. They usually have weird metallic or other flavors, and just never seem fully right.

Agreed…in general. This wine somehow stands up pretty well with just gentle handling. The spritz is gone on day 2 and there’s a whole lot of red fruited (cherry dominant) enjoyment with fir and umami. Showing quite well at age 10. The spritz would be a deal breaker if I needed pop-n-pour satisfaction.

RT

[Ben_Bader]

Speaking of Thomas - are they doing/did they already do a 2021 release? I haven’t heard a peep since the 2019s shipped out.

[Chris_Seiber]

@Richard_T_r_i_m_p_i

@Chris_Seiber

Although I know shaking and/or long decant time can eventually get the fizz out of red wine bottles, I almost never end up liking wines that started out that way. They usually have weird metallic or other flavors, and just never seem fully right.

Agreed…in general. This wine somehow stands up pretty well with just gentle handling. The spritz is gone on day 2 and there’s a whole lot of red fruited (cherry dominant) enjoyment with fir and umami. Showing quite well at age 10. The spritz would be a deal breaker if I needed pop-n-pour satisfaction.

RT

That’s good to know. I’ve seen fizzy reds come around, but somehow they never seem all that great even after they have. I’m sure every situation is different, though, and I’m glad yours was.

[Tyler_Rico]

Mailer typically lands in October with shipping in Nov/Dec. No 2020 vintage due to smoke.

[Ted_R]

Yes. John is still alive as he emailed me last week when I asked him the same question.

[Benjamin_Hand]

There was a nice Oregon Wine History Archive History Podcast with John in May.