Do they actually sell in the end? Looks like all of these (as well as the blanco) are uncontested…
I’ve seen some move. To be fair, I feel like 90% of the bids come on Sunday. And the more expensive items can take longer.
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Damn. At that price, Id be a seller too.
Those wines have been selling at insanely inflated prices since pre-pandemic. Keep in mind the above is the Gran Reserva. The whites also have been effected. Gravonia’s can approach $200 hammer price even though you could find them on store shelves for less than $50 even a few years ago.
It’s still possible to find Gravonia at retail under 50…
A couple months ago, wandered through the Toal Wines store in Prescott, AZ. Lo and behold, Gravonia at 45 per bottle (along with the two red Reservas).
Last place I was expecting to see those…
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In about 2013, I found two x 1991 Grand Reserva Tondonia’s (reds) for around $70 at the South Center (WA) Total Wine. At the time, it was a good price but within a couple of years, that purchase became an outright heist.
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Nice. I never see them at Total Wine, though I don’t shop there very much these days. I have wandered into Hi Time and seen the Gravonia on shelf. I just wonder when retailers are going to start putting much higher price tags on them given the after market. Can’t say I would blame them if they did.
I also think a lot more of this is getting pick off before retail or being held for select customers these days. Not like the good ole days of seeing cases sitting on the floor at WineX. Same for the rose on that part.
What makes you think suspect storage?
Weird, the whites are still widely available here in Norway for €40 (Gravonia) and €60 (Reserva). I almost didn’t buy the 2013s which were released here a few weeks ago because of the price (the 2012 reserva was around €40 last year so I thought €60 was steep). Why do they reach these prices in the US?
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No idea who is buying the Gravonia at $200/bottle when the Tondonia Blanco Reserva is going for the sake price. It honestly crossed my mind that there is some kind of money laundering scheme going on.
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I know there is built in scarcity in terms of numbers imported. I think that helped them become something of a Somms-on-Instagram kind of wine because of that. That’s my best guess anyway.
I like the Gravonia but its not a wine to spend a lot of money on for me. If I were I’d rather just step up to one of the Tondonias.
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I like the Tondonia Rosado, but I think Clos Cibonne is better.
Oh nothing specific. Just alluding to conversations in other threads about how WineBid does very little to ensure good provenance.
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I hear where you’re coming from. To me it’s close-ish but ultimately not as good (though I love love love cibonne and buy a case a year).
I’m lucky that I think I actually own more Tondonia Rosado than any other single wine.
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Do you drink the Cibonne with age or fresh?
Personally I give them at least 3-4 years in the cellar.
Agree with Rob. A few years of age seems to be good for them. Just drank a 2020 last week that was awesome.
It also depends on the bottling. Clos Cibonne makes 3 different rose bottlings that look very similar. Cuvee Tradition, Speciale des Vignettes, and Cuvee Prestige Caroline. Speciale des Vignettes does very well with age, while Tradition I generally drink young, but tbh I am not sure I have tried much Tradition with real age on it to confirm that it doesn’t improve. Caroline I don’t really have experience with.
Tradition - main bottling. 90/10 Tibouren/Grenache - 30+ year old vines. aged 1 year under fleurette in 120+ year old foudres
Speciale des Vignettes - 90/10 Tibouren/Grenache. 60+ year old vines. more schist soils compared to calcareous clay in Tradition. 1 year under fluerette in 120+ year foudres
Caralone - 85/10/5 Tibouren/Grenache/Syrah - 40+ yr old vines. 8-10 months in 300L french oak, and from my understanding, not under fluerette. daily battonage
Last week I had 2011 Clos Cibonne Speciale des Vignettes sbs with 2009 LDH Rosado, as well as teh 2024 Cibonne Tradition Rose. Trying to find pics. @gavin.f probably has. Both were great, but I thought the LDH edged it out during the brief window that I tasted them. The 2011 Cibonne was not the most vibrant bottle I have had of that vintage though. It showed the fluerette a bit more than I remember. I brought both Cibonne while someone else was kind enough to bring the LDH.
2011 and 2017 have been among my favorite bottlings of Cibonne Speciale des Vignettes and I think they both have a bright future. Tradition I have been drinking 2023s and 2024s.
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Yes, I was referring to the Speciale des Vignettes. Did you cellar that 2011 yourself?
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Library release actually. Only 1 year in my cellar so far. They are pretty good about holding back some wine to make sure it gets aged.