TN: 2008 Matello - Pinot Noir Winter's Hill Vineyard (USA, Oregon, Willamette Valley, Dundee Hills)

WINE TALK
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2008 Matello Pinot Noir Winter’s Hill Vineyard - USA, Oregon, Willamette Valley, Dundee Hills (2/21/2023)
– decanted immediately prior to initial taste –
– tasted non-blind over a couple hours on Day 1; revisited on Day 2 –

NOSE: spicy/savory and with aged red berry aromas; medium+ expressiveness; cherry; hint of bitter florals.

BODY: dark ruby color with slight bricking throughout; color is of medium-shallow depth; medium bodied.

TASTE: high acidity (comes across as a bit prickly); a touch warm; moderately aged ripe red fruits; hint of “aged Pinot” leather, which intensified with air over the initial half hour; comes across as moderately aged, but I’d Drink Now. 13.8% alc. is noticeable; flavor profile strongly reminds me of many Rhys SCM bottlings I’ve had. This was kind of tough/challenging to drink, in the sense that the alcohol was showing, it seemed disjointed and/or falling apart. Day 2 did not bring improvement, as it came across as more flat and oakier than it did on Day 1. To be clear, I do think this is very good, but at it’s $90 price tag, and in the context of convention wisdom being “Goodfellow Pinots need age”, this was pretty disappointing.

50, 5, 12, 15, 7 = (89 pts.)

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I’m sorry that you had a disappointing experience. I perceive the Matello Pinots as being stylistically different from the Goodfellow Pinots, with the latter having more high-toned fruit and acidity and generally requiring more time (at least for my palate). My recollection, perhaps wrong, was that the change from Matello → Goodfellow was around 2012 and Marcus opined that he had gotten to the point as a winemaker where the wines were finally deserving of his family name.

I will wait patiently for the masses to tell me what I got wrong.

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Had a bottle a short while back. Got a similar impression to yours with the alcohol.

I don’t think these older wines reflect how the current lineup of Goodfellow wines will age. There’s been some big stylistic changes. I discussed this wine, the 2008 OR vintage, and stylistic changes with the Matellow/Goodfellow with Marcus on the which Goodfellow are you drinking thread a while back. He noted how 2008 was one of the vintages that made him move more towards earlier picking. Worthwhile read if you’re interested. Link to the start of the conversation

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A lot of good points above that may explain Brian’s experience. I’d second those points about 2008 and Matello v Goodfellow. I’d also note that (for me) Winter’s Hill would not be the bottling I’d use to judge the aging prospects of Marcus’ wines. I’ve had a lot of pleasure with 07 and 08 Whistling Ride, Souris and Durant, but fully expect subsequent vintages that are more in my wheelhouse (11, 13, 17 and 19, and probably even 12, 16 and 18) to eclipse those wines once they reach the 12-15 year mark.

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Agree with your assessment of the matello I have had. Very expensive and more kind of academically interesting to see the history of Marcus’s work than tasty. Attempted to draw it out through a couple of days in the fridge and didn’t improve.

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Hi Brian,

First and foremost that was part of the Monopole Cru offer and the wines are guaranteed. We’ll credit or refund the 2008 Winter’s Hill, and I appreciate you taking a gamble on it. It’s a $45 bottle (on release) but library prices are higher simply because we wanted to guarantee the wines and 14 year old wines are a lot less consistent than new releases. We did open 2 bottles of this wine before including it, and it was a favorite of the group we opened it for. Though, unquestionably our winemaking process has become more refined since then (and the vines older).

I do appreciate the comments and thoughts above, and much of it is spot on. The wines have changed quite a bit, and lower alcohols have been a serious focus. Most of our Pinot Noirs lately are 12.8-13.4% for Pinot Noir.

But I would also like to post a caution. The Winter’s Hill is probably the lowest acid wine we made at the time. If the acidity stood out, the wines in the most recent decade will be a good bit more acidic than that. Stems are also higher and tannins are considerably firmer and more defined. Combined with switching to puncheons, most of our wines are more austere than the wines made in 2008.

When we first spoke, we had a conversation about your trepidation of buying into us after buying another board darling with similar whole cluster choices and a need for long aging. I had some concerns that our wines wouldn’t be up your alley but was happy that you opted to try them. They are not for everyone. Like the other producer we spoke about, we use a ton of stems and have probably less fruit in the wines than they do (though I believe the 2018 Long Acre was a positive experience for you, IIRC?). So while the newer wines are different than the 2008, I remain unconvinced you will like them that much. Though I really appreciate your honesty in your posts and notes, I also don’t want you stuck with a bunch of our wines if you don’t like them.

The Dundee Hills have the deepest soils with high potential for water holding capacity, so the plants generally have bigger leaves and accumulate sugars more quickly. The 13.8% is higher than my goals, but no different or less than some wines we have seen really positive feedback on lately (2009 Souris). At some point that may be different palate preferences, or it may be bottle variation (@ChrisJames can chime in here on his recent experiences with the 2018 WV Pinot Noir).

No matter what, we appreciate your support and are game for whatever path you choose with Goodfellow wines.

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Marcus,

Thank you for all of that. I appreciate the offer to refund, but I didn’t perceive the wine to be flawed, so I will respectfully pass on that generous offer — I personally believe refunds for something like wine should issue only when the product (or perhaps its packaging) was flawed in some manner — nothing of that sort going on here. I don’t think it matters at all, but I purchased this as part of the Spring '22 Release and Library Offer.

Re: high acidity: I’m an acid freak. I actually like pronounced acidity, so that wasn’t a knock on this Winter’s Hill at all — just an observation. Quick case in point: I love '08 red Burgundy.

Like you, I’m not-yet convinced your Pinots are generally the best fit for my palate, but I have not given up hope yet. My accounting shows I’ve purchased 29 bottles of Pinot Noir, spread over 24 different bottlings (taking vintage into account). 14 of those 29 bottles remain. Of the 15 I’ve tasted thus far, my favorites have been: '18 Fir Crest, '18 Fir Crest Block 8, '18 Long Acre, and the '09 and '11 WR RR, with the Long Acre being my favorite of those five. Given how tight all of the younger wines have been, I assume the conventional “needs time” wisdom is correct. With that in mind, I’m going to do my best to sit on some of the younger bottles for awhile until I start seeing some TNs suggesting they’re opening-up. Luckily, I do have a couple of the '09 Souris, so perhaps I’ll tee that one up next. Unfortunately, I’m a terrible psychic, and am unable to definitively predict where wines go in the future and if I’ll like wherever it is they may go. But the journey is part of the fun attendant to this hobby. :slight_smile:

As for the abv: I go out of my way to be ignorant about a wine’s abv until I’ve written my TN (at least my Day 1 TN). I’ve enjoyed many a Pinot in the 14’s, so 13.8% doesn’t worry me one bit — all that really matters to me is how a wine carries its alcohol. I recently enjoyed a Bdx. that was listed at 15.5% — totally blew my mind when I saw that on the label.

So, all this having been said, you shouldn’t expect another blitzkrieg of Pinot purchases from me unless/until some of these younger wines reveal the manner in which they age - and I end-up liking them - or I open other bottles that make me lose my willpower. This is, of course, the challenge anybody faces when trying to determine if a wine requiring age is one to their tastes — one must either sample young bottles and extrapolate from there, try older vintages of the same bottlings (and hope all other factors have remained relatively constant), or buy on faith (often spurred by others’ opinions, including the “pros”). When you and I first spoke, I related to you a story of me previously doing the “buy young” and “buy on faith” thing with another producer — I bought way more than I should have, and, over time, those purchases generally didn’t develop in the manner I originally hoped/predicted. Since then, I’ve adopted a more cautious approach, which includes trying bottles (too) young before jumping in with both feet, so to speak, especially when buying older vintages is not an option. Over time, I figure I’ll be able to definitively determine where my sweet spot is with your Pinots (or maybe you’ll see some kind of pattern and point it out for me!). If you were to tell me this '08 Winter’s Hill is what I can expect from the more recent Goodfellow bottlings, then - yeah - I’d probably stop buying; but I see that’s very much not what you’re saying.

… now that’s about the Pinots. Your Chardonnays, on other hand, I am already completely smitten! So, at a bare minimum, you can expect to see continued purchases of those moving forward. Cheers, Marcus! :wine_glass:

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I can remember when 89 wasn’t a failing grade.

But those were the salad days as 92 is now the score of failure.

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Indeed. The declaration of 93 pt. wines by critics and on this board is laughable. It is the starting grade for a good wine. But 94 is exceptional.

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Of the likely several hundred Goodfellow/Matello wines I’ve drank or tasted, I’ve had exactly two bad ones. I understand that Brian is not saying he had a bad bottle, but I thought I should tack on this brief bit. One bottle was a 2009 Matello Whistling Ridge that had a great nose but seemed off on the palate. More recently, I had an odd 2018 WV PN. I’ve been happily working through a case of this, but there was something wrong with bottle #9. The nose seemed regular enough, but the palate was dull, bitter, and astringent. I forced myself to stick with it, but it actually got worse over time and became a chore to drink. I talking with Marcus about this, he commented that even with Diam corks, a wine can occasionally just go to crap. Bottle #10 was the usual cheery stuff.

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Hi Brian,

I really appreciate the detailed response, it’s really enlightening and helpful. Your list of favorites, as well as enjoying 08 Burgundy (a vintage in my wheelhouse as well), absolutely backs that up. The 19 Fir Crest Block 8 is, by the numbers, is the highest acid red wine we’ve ever made. The 2011s don’t have as low a pH, but their acidity is very prominent.

The prevalence of Whistling Ridge wines in your list says a lot as well. It’s generally the upper tier of structure combined with the most elegant/ethereal fruit. It usually hangs onto tannins, though based on your list of favorites, I am pretty sure that I let our early conversation steer me in the wrong direction. Especially if you enjoy Burgundy from crunchier vintages.

It makes sense not to load up on anything until you see how the younger wines turn out. The Willamette Valley bottling is also a good guide to the future evolution of the other options, bottle variation being the one caveat. It also gives a sense of how your palate will align with the vintage. If we ever get enough of a set at Whistling Ridge again, the Ribbon Ridge bottling usually does the same, but with a direct correllation to Whistling Ridge.

For anyone reading this thread, it’s important to note that our wines aren’t necessarily made for the tannins to resolve. They’re produced for people who enjoy tannins, I joke all the time that we make wines for negroni drinkers. And the wines are at their best when the tannins are present but folded in, the way that Campari bitterness is folded into a negroni (and food is typically a part of the ingredients in a Goodfellow “negroni”)

If I was looking at Goodfellow/Matello Whistling Ridge vintages to drink, 04, 07, 08, 09, 11, 12, and 13 are what I would begin with, but the vintage variation within the set is about as big as you can get. And the wetter vintages (07 and 13) have very distinct expressions apart from the others.

Though the 09 and 11 vintages are the outliers for variation, which is a good sign that Whistling Ridge, along with Fir Crest, is actually the vineyard you would align with. Backwards from what I would have guessed from our first conversation.

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You misspelled it. It’s n-e-b-b-i-o-l-o. Italian can be tricky.

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100%!

I really don’t want this point to go by the wayside here. 89 points really is “Very Good” from me, and reflects a wine I likely enjoyed, and objectively believe to “Very Good.” (to the extent anything as opinion-based as a TN can be objective) :wine_glass:

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Thanks for all of that, Marcus — very interesting. One thing to point out — possibly major, possibly minor: you’ll know better than I — the Fir Crests I’ve tried and enjoyed were 2018s. I haven’t tried the '19s yet.

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Brian’s TN prompted me to open my lone 2008 Hommage. I can never remember what Hommage is a blend of beyond some Whistling Ridge. This had none of the negatives perceived by him - pricky acidity, noticeable alcohol, flatness, oak, to the point where I wonder if his bottle was off. What really stood out for me was how different the BWC wines are to the current WC (Before Whole Cluster/ Whole Cluster. I was going to say Before Stems, but BS didn’t quite hit the mark). This wine strikes me as all about lush, dark fruits - blackberries, black plums, bing cherries. Even the color is dark. It still seems very fresh and young, even primary. The acidity is nicely in check and the tannins restrained. If tasted blind, neither of us would have pegged this as a Goodfellow wine. What it does seem like is a “typical” higher end OR PN as opposed to the very unique WC Goodfellow wines. If I had to compare it to a current Goodfellow wine, I think it most closely resembles the Fir Crest due to the fruit character and lush body.

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Just for clarification, BWC would only be 2002. :wink:

Though we routinely use 100% whole cluster now, and I didn’t use 100% WC until 2005 (1 fermenter), and most percentages hovered between 33-50% until 2011.

The 2008 Hommage is comprised of Bishop Creek (Yamhill-Carlton) and Winter’s Hill (Dundee Hills) fruit. Whole cluster in that cuvee ranged from 25-50%, most of the cuvee coming from a 40% WC fermenter of Winter’s Hill and a 50% fermenter of Bishop Creek. It does have the darker tones of Yamhill-Carlton and both wines were bottled on 11 months of age rather than our current 18-20. 2008 was the transition with that, where the Souris, Whistling Ridge, and Bishop Creek were bottled later(first year I could afford to do that).

But you raise a really good point:

Whole cluster wines that are pale red in youth, will often darken and have a significant increase in color and hue as they reach maturity. Even the Whistling Ridge will become considerably darker with time. That’s less true for wet vintages like 2007 and 2013, but it still occurs. With the Y-C fruit, the wines become quite dark, especially in some of these small cluster vintages like 2008 and 2012 (2010 less so). It’s often challenging for people to believe how much weight and color comes back into the wine as it evolves from a pale tansluscent red into a somewhat blackly hued wine.

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What? I simplified things again? :roll_eyes:

Thanks for the explanation. Given the lack of crunch, I figured it was BWC. The taste profile certainly matched the vineyards used.

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I always appreciate your posts and support though, and the tasty lamb and rabbit as well!

Y-C and the Dundee Hills both seem to really integrate stems much sooner as they age. The 2015 Fir Crest folded them in by about 2020. And we have basically gone to 100% whole cluster on all of the durant Pinot Noir just to get the savory stem impact to show more in the wines youth. Where as the 2015 Whistling Ridge still shows the whole cluster in an obvious way, and the fruit is definitely still filling in.

To me the 08 Hommage would show the stems in the layering of the aromatics (probably more easily seen in a side by side with a destemmed 08 PN). And the 25-50% levels really do fold in much more seamlessly. Though I personally still prefer the 100% WC.