Yup. I’d never call Lafarge’s wines clunky, but the Chenes (especially) and the Ducs are VERY structured wines. I completely agree that without the requisite age the palate will often not match the nose.
My first thoughts too. Sometimes the sign of mild tca is the lack of flavors and length.
I don’t see how one could say definitely no TCA as you don’t need the telltale signs of TCA (wet cardboard, etc) for it to be impacted significantly. over half my issues with TCA have been this way. While I can’t definitely say “TCA” without a lab test, when bottle A lacks the high tones and nuances that I associate with the wine, and has a clipped finish while bottle B consumed around the same time (from the same shipment) has the high tones, nuances and finish I expect, I assume it’s TCA.
While I would give John S’s expectations a lot of weight, some recent Cellartracker notes seem to point to this being an off bottle.
Yeah, but with TCA the nose typically disappears, even if you aren’t catching the taint, so Tomas’ description wouldn’t really fit.
Guys: if I had been served that wine blind I would have found nothing wrong with it whatsoever. The issue here, rightly or wrongly, is that given the wine’s ‘theoretical pedigree’ I had expectations which were not fulfilled regarding palate complexity. That is why I interpreted my first taste of it as being still closed, and was disappointed that it showed nothing else throughout the evening despite the nose branching out into further amplitude. Given the CT notes I believe it’s possible that I was unlucky and got an off bottle. These duds happen, and I think we see it all the time in CT notes. Whether or not it would have been better the second day, God knows. I’ve learned my lesson.
It’s funny I had this same conversation with Greg about 05’s recently. I’ve had some classy 05’s that have been approachable, even an 05’ DRC Grands Eche w/ Matt King last winter. At that same lunch we had a 10’ Grands Eche that was even more open and have heard the 05’ Eche is also starting to open as well. So I was surprised to hear Greg talk about how closed 05’s are, and especially Lafarge, but if you look at the TN’s for 05’ Lafarge you can see they are gonna need some time. I think it’s something else at play than just soley “more structured” there are some great wines that don’t really shut down or just provide bigger, longer drinking windows.
And yeah, I’ve heard that 07’ Roumier BM has been great in recent years. I did have two super closed 01’s a couple years back while others have enjoyed open 01’s in the same time…not sure if it’s bottle/cork variation and when Roumier started blending barrels before bottling.
So it all makes vintage and producer generalizations not always so reliable. I find about half of the classy 10’s (1er and GC) I open are really nice and either open or beginning to, the other half just need more time…I’m guessing harvest dates and times are a big contributing factor to the variability here, as this is often beyond a producers 100% control and is different for every year and every wine.
I also think that people’s perception of whether a wine is ready to drink is subjective. I tend to drink younger burgundy than many people here and like it for freshness and exuberant, pure fruit.
I like it too, but I need to taste a lot more before I decide whether the Côte d’Or premium is worth it for the caterpillar rather than for the butterfly it will become, if that makes any sense. I’m gladly cellaring some higher end 1er/GC stuff at the moment (in both colors) but that whole 60€ village wine thing strikes me as a really inconvenient middle ground between daily drinker and special bottle, even though I objectively like the wines.
Hudelot and PYCM bourgogne fit the daily drinker bill nicely. Probably a lot cheaper for you in Europe too.
HN isn’t imported to Portugal as far as I know (I ordered their bourgogne myself from France), but I was curious to find that Dirk Niepoort has actually made a wine in Burgundy, with Domaine Guyon, and I bought a bottle to try it out. Nevertheless, and given overall differences in purchasing power between Portugal and other European countries, the high quality daily drinker range over here is really 7-12€, with 4-6€ still having a lot of wine that is perfectly clean and technically correct despite being one dimensional (which I don’t buy, but is the bulk of what is sold) and occasionally having overachievers in that range.
Another data point from this evening:
Popped and poured at cellar temp. Lovely translucent cherry red color with some bricking on the rim. Saddle leather, iron and rose petals on a somewhat reserved nose. Much more expressive on the palate, with rose hips, cranberry and dark cherry fruit nicely balanced with crisp acid filled finish. Really supple texture. Still think this wine has another gear and some more patience will be rewarded.
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Tomas, I know that you are pretty new to Burgundy and based on the Lafarge wines I have had over the years (I have not had this one), on Don’s comments on other bottles of this wine (Don is pretty experienced in drinking Burgundy and is pretty spot on in his comments), and on other comments you have made, maybe Burgundy, esp. those made in a very traditional style, is just not for you. I don’t think I have ever had a Lafarge wine that is not particularly layered and complex. What I have found is that they are not plush and rich but rather more restrained in style and just may be something that is not what you are looking for. Is this an anomaly for you or do you find Burgundies generally not to be to your taste? Many people are looking for more power and octane from a wine. Many people equate layer and complexity with more and more fruit. You need to look inside yourself and see if that is you. If so, you may want to look more for Bordeaux or Rhone wines (maybe even Bandol) as you continue to explore French wines rather than Burgundy, which may not be for you.
This isn’t a matter of right or wrong. I like Rome apples more than Delicious apples. I like certain types of cheeses more than other types of cheeses (my favorite probably is a Swiss cheese called Hoch Ybrig). Burgundy is my favorite wine region; it may not be yours.
I think I would probably need to do a lot more tasting before reaching a conclusion like that, but the problem here was likely one of timing (i.e. the fact that these wines need a lot of time, from what I’ve gathered after listening to many opinions around here). It wasn’t that long after this that I opened a jaw dropping 2010 Amiot-Servelle Derriere la Grange. That had the complexity which I felt was lacking in this wine and it was ethereal and feminine at the same time, for my taste. I had a far more experienced taster at the table (in terms of Burgundy) and he was similarly enchanted.
I think of my palate as very open minded and I enjoy a wide range of wines. My first great love was Champagne and I am yet to find an example of a wine style in which I find absolutely nothing to like. My first experiences with German Riesling, traditional Bordeaux, Barolo, etc were all very pleasurable to me, yet I am also admittedly not allergic to bolder, more ‘masculine’ wines. That makes this forum both a lot of fun and a headache!