TN: 1976 Mouton, 1988 Cos d’Estournel

WINE TALK
21

… because it´s not 1855 anymore … pileon

Seriously, if we remember the fuss in St.Emilion, what would a new classification bring us in value?
Nothing - except still higher prices … see Angelus and Pavie …
it´s already sad what happened to Laville-HB after renaming it LMHB blanc … who can and will afford such a bottle for 600/700/900+

I think the well informed freaks here each have already their own classification in mind, and they might or might not include Chateaux like Palmer, Las Cases, La Mission, Ducru … as FGs … it doesn´t matter much …

Pomerol lives very well without any classification - and everybody knows that L´Evangile usually is a wine of higher class that … let´s say L´Enclos … [cheers.gif]

Discussing here is fun - and one thing … another thing would be to put it on a label officially … (nightmare)

22

Very well stated!

23

At a wine dinner once I was to my great surprise put next to Mons. Cazes, who said that none of the estates had the slightest interest in altering the 1855 classification no matter how good the wine they were making was (and we were drinking the '89 Lynch-Bages at the time), precisely because they considered it a museum piece, to be treated as such and not messed about with.

24

It’s all very well for him… :slight_smile:

25

Not to defend the 1855 classification, which is indeed more than outdated, but I would venture that for the last 100 years or so, Mouton was all in all more consistently high quality than both Lafite and Margaux. Even Mouton’s somewhat shaky period in the late 80s/early 90s cannot be compared with Lafite and Margaux’s doldrums through the '60s and '70s.

26

William is surely correct about Lafite and the late Ginestet years at Margaux.

27

The 88 Cos has always seemed a bit more taut than years of comparable age. My last notes from a couple of years ago…

http://www.bordeauxwineenthusiasts.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7440&p=61562

28

My understanding is that '76 wasn’t a really good year in Bordeaux. It’s my birth year and I’ve found it a tough year to find wines that aren’t dessert wines that are still hanging on. I’m aware that the 1976 Grange is a legendary wine…but it’s also commanding a legendary price. So are most reds from '76 that still show well.

29

1976 was hot in Europe, very hot. I remember taking a lot of cold baths in England to keep cool. The winemakers did not really know how to cope with the conditions, and only the wealthy had cooling on their tanks, so fermentation temperatures were high. Many wines showed jam initially with low acidity, a combination that is not good for longevity.

30

As long as you are correcting things, LMHB cannot be elevated as it is not part of the 1855 Classification neener

31

FWIW, every chateau has its ups and downs, sometimes lasting for decades. Since 2005, Mouton has been among the best of Bordeaux, at the level of any First Growth. In fact, they are IMO, potentially at the peak of the Firsts Growths today. Not only that but their second wine, Petit Mouton, is perhaps the best second wine in Bordeaux today, rivaling Forts de Latour.

As far as the 1855 Classification, when you consider it’s about 165 years old and it was never intended to remain in place, remembering it was created in a few weeks, generally speaking, “much” of 1855 still holds true today.

32

Of course it can be elevated; from a non growth to a first growth. I can be elevated to become the Pope [dance-clap.gif]

33

I suspect LMHB has a better chance of being promoted than you becoming Pope😁

34

It wouldn’t be the first time a nice Jewish boy became head of the Christian church.

35

If I were the Pope, I would make La Mission and Pape Clément my favorite altar wines and ban the 1855 classification. :slight_smile: