Yeah, but Bill, there’s a big difference b/w pop and pour and 24hrs+ of air. I’d give a princely sum to be able to save wines for day 2 - I can’t tell you how many burgs, old and young, I’ve poured down the drain on day two after getting a nauseatingly-vinegary whiff.
But then again, I can’t stand Musar, so I’m coming from the perspective of someone who really dislikes AA in my wines.
Suffice it to say, not every afficianado decants their old Barolo 24 hours ahead. But it’s generally pretty sturdy stuff.
As an owner of a coravin and a lover of great wine I really appreciate this discussion.
I dont own any wines over 30 years old other them Madeira.
That said I will never coravin a wine that has major sediment.
I’ve had perfectly good success using a Coravin on 20+ year old Bordeaux and 15+ year old Burgundy, so I don’t think one can generalize that the device can’t be used on any older wines. That being said, I wouldn’t use a Coravin on old Nebbiolo for the reasons that Bill et al gave – but I have used it on younger Nebbiolo that didn’t seem to have the fine suspended sediment and it worked OK.
Of course, David and John, nowhere was it said that 24+ hours of air is normal or usual, only possible when required, with no ill effects. Methinks that David is tilting at his own 
. Here is what was actually said:
“The point is not that all Nebbiolo needs 36 hours, which is an extreme case, but not uncommon for the toughest 1964 wines. Some fully mature bottles may need only double-decanting and recorking until serving time. Others may need 3, 6 or 12 hours. 12 maximum for aged Nebbioli that one would expect to be safely within their drinking windows. There is never any vinegar involved unless the wine was already on its way down that path, which is rare with well-stored bottles from good producers and strong vintages…”
The sediment is everything with Coravin use, Ben. Young Nebbiolo or other wines with no sediment, maybe no problem. Older Nebbiolo with fine suspended sediment, disaster. Older non-Nebbiolo wines with sediment, pays your money and takes your chances, on both the wine being flawed AND the cork not preserving the rest of the wine. Being certain of the quantity and nature of the sediment is a tricky business at best, since some old wines seem to be a quarter sediment, while others throw none at all. Personally, I would rather pour out a little leftover wine or drink it on the downside the next day rather than risk a bottle never showing as well as it could due to the introduction of Coravin or similar devices into the mix. (That said, rest assured that there will never be any leftovers with wines like the 1964 Monfortino!) To be fair, I am not convinced that any of the inert gas devices do any better than the “pour half into a 375ml and recork” approach, or simply corking and refrigerating the leftovers to save for the next day, and I am certain that nobody is putting the old-fashioned remedies to blind taste tests against Coravin and the other inert gas toys. Even during the Cruvinet rage in wine bars, how many times do you suppose a glass of wine from a newly opened bottle which has been properly aerated (if required) has been compared blind to the last glass or two from the same wine in the Cruvinet? I have never heard of such a test. I do not dispute that inert gas will keep oxygen out of wine, if the wine were in an Erlenmeyer flask with an impermeable stopper. I do question the need to keep tiny amounts of oxygen out of wine that is kept at cellar temperature or refrigerated to begin with, and whether that is truly happening with old corks most of the time.
One other point worth making, which goes to the concern about the impact of dregs on wine rather than the negative impact of Coravin, I suppose, is that too many wine drinkers are too easily satisfied with what comes their way, rather than making any effort to learn what will make their wines consistently show at their best and then taking the required steps to insure that result. Part of the story is no doubt that everyday drinking wines rarely require or reward decanting, and another part that nobody (well, ALMOST nobody) is drinking 30-50-year-old Nebbiolo and other reds as everyday drinkers. My agenda is only that it is important to learn what optimal showings for our best wines smell and taste like, and that it is worth a little extra effort to achieve that…
This would seem to be an excellent use of a Pungo, which has a feature (ironically intended for much more low-brow wine – screwcapped bottles) that allows you to remove the cork and replace it with a plastic topper with a hole through which you insert the Pungo (or an air-tight pin). I could see someone standing up an old Barolo for the proper amount of time, decanting it off its sediment, washing the bottle and replacing the wine, stopping with said plastic topper, then accessing it via Pungo whenever desired. Would theoretically last almost indefinitely in the bottle this way.
This is my first post, please be gentle. Since the events described below, I have learned that Giacomo was actually the dad, Aldo’s brother was actually Giovanni, and his Monfortino isn’t half bad.
While looking for Champagne on NYE 2014, I found a bottle of 64 Monfortino (and some other Baroli from the 70’s) in a much larger batch of 70’s lesser growth Bordeax from forgettable vintages. What I recalled about Giacomo was that he was Aldo’s backward and traditionalist older brother, so I figured the 64 might be worth a $50 gamble. I had the owners pop the cork and pour themselves a small taste, which was light orange, thin, metallic and oxidized. I was disappointed, but I knew it was a gamble, and we agreed that it might improve a little with decanting.
I drove the short distance home, carefully decanted it, and then ran some errands. When I got back a few hours later, the color had deepened into a beautiful maroon, and the dining room seemed to be bathed in an amazing bouquet of violets and spice. It tasted even better than it smelled. Every other Barolo I’d ever had, no matter how beautiful, always ended by smacking me in the mouth with too much tannin. This was different. This was glorious and perfect. Even my dog was intrigued, while probably cursing the fact that she was born without opposable thumbs. The only red wine I’ve ever had that even approached this experience was a 1974 Heitz Martha’s. Now, all my disposable income is spent on Barolo for the cellar, and I religiously follow the decanting advice of Bill K, Ken V and others when I do get to open an old bottle.
After reading this thread, I realize how lucky I was in light of my reckless handling of the wine. I’m also left to wonder if I would have found the bottle even better had I left it upright for a month, and left it in the decanter for several more hours. If I can just find a few more bottles for $50…
Scott, I would have to quibble with “indefinitely”, I suppose, but what you outlined does at least solve the critically important sediment problem. To my mind, this would still be second choice behind properly preparing and drinking the entire bottle at a single sitting, but I understand that not everyone can drink an entire bottle at one time. (Well, Goldberg could if he would chug the stuff, but I think that he fancies himself too much the gentleman to behave so crassly. 
)
Question: Reserva Rioja generally doesn’t have much sediment. People usually attribute that to the long tank aging. Why does Monfortino have so much sediment notwithstanding similar aging? Just the tannin levels in the nebbiolo?
First and foremost, it seems difficult to impossible to get Nebbiolo sediment to clump, or, if it does, it still tends to leave a high percentage of particles in suspension. It would seem to have more to do with the difference in the grapes and the consistency of the finished wines than with aging, I suppose, since Nebbiolo other than Monfortino, aged in different vessels for different time periods, suffers from the same problem. Even if one filtered the wine before bottling (perish the thought!), I wonder how fine the filter would have to be to eliminate the fine sediment…
I think the fine sediment only develops with age, so filtering at bottling won’t solve the problem.
Welcome, Nick! Great first post! I don’t have much experience with aged Nebbiolo, but I am glad to have the advice of the people you mentioned (and a couple of others here) on how to treat any future bottles. Your experience is yet another affirmation of the wisdom they’re sharing.
Good point. I had little confidence in that theoretical anyway, now reduced to zero…
Great first post, Nick. Welcome! Let us know when you find more $50 Monfortinos!
I drink beer only from a glass, but am not beyond drinking directly from a wine bottle. After I decant an old Bordeaux, I always drink the dregs and sediment directly from the bottle (unless being observed). I like Bordeaux sediment, unlike Nebbiolo sediment.
More to the point, I use the Coravin to drink really good wine almost every night since one small glass each is all my wife and I generally have. By spreading the consumption of a wine out over 3 or 4 days (not necessarily consecutive), I can justify drinking fairly expensive wine. Mature Burgundy is often my go-to wine (Jadot, not Roumier) when I am not eating red meat, and the Coravin is perfect for that.