TN: '15 Northern Rhones (Souhaut, Faury, Paris, Balthazar ...) - Can you say ripe?

[salilb]

I have a fairly limited sample size with Paris, but I’ve liked the few wines I’ve had from 2012 onwards. The Geynale was a clear step up from the Granits (both 30 and 60) in terms of both depth and structure. I’d love to revisit the Geynale in about 15-20 years.

FWIW - I thought the Geynale needed a lot of air (about a couple of hours in the decanter) before it started to show much beyond the fruit and tannin. YMMV.

[jnbrown]

The last time I had Faury VV it was anything but ripe and fruity. Mostly violets and olive, so savory it wan’t to my liking. I find some CA Syrahs have some northern Rhone characteristics and do a good good job with balancing the fruit. Mostly from Santa Barbara County but also Sonoma.

[Alan_Rath]

I posted on 15 Clape (and some 16s) here

TN: Clape wines

Nothing noticeably ripe about the 15s, they were actually quite restrained for the vintage.

[John_Morris]

@Alan Rath

I posted on 15 Clape (and some 16s) here

TN: Clape wines - WINE TALK - WineBerserkers

Nothing noticeably ripe about the 15s, they were actually quite restrained for the vintage.

Is that really the phrase you wanted to use? Or did you mean “nothing overrripe”?

(FYI, I did not say the 15s we tasted were overripe, just that their fruit was somewhat jammy and that they didn’t resemble in structure or approachability any young Northern Rhones at this stage that I’d ever experienced.)

[Alan_Rath]

Yes, “overripe”. But I’ll expand to say nothing at all jammy or syrupy. Not critiquing your notes, just adding to the discussion

[John_Morris]

I didn’t say syrupy either. But the fruit flavors in a number of these wines were like those in jam (which is not the same as cooked wine!).

[Alan_Rath]

John, I wouldn’t even use the word “jammy” for the 15 Clape wines. Just good ripeness. Having said that, I often prefer cooler years where the wines have more tension, reserve, and complexity. A vertical of 11 through 15 would be quite interesting.

[Keith_A_k_e_r_s]

@Robert Alfert

Thanks for the detailed notes, John. This is very helpful and I appreciate your attention to detail. By the way, for you, these are actually decent scores. I’m really surprised by the showing of Paris, perhaps I need to circle back and try a 30 or 60 again. I think my last attempt was the 2012 vintage, and it did not thill me any differently than prior vintages failed to thrill. I do like the Geynale, Which comes from a killer vineyard and has stem inclusion.

I guess my question is, what is your expectation when you drink them? The 30 is usually priced in the mid-30s, so for me, it’s a good, solid Cornas at a lower price.

[R_M_Kriete]

@D@vid Bu3ker

@Markus S

Like the Field of Dreams, if you make a wine, the structure will come. I highly doubt these will fall apart over the next 1-3 years. But I have noticed, say post-2007, that Northern Rhones are getting frootier and full of lip-smacking gobs occur more often than not. Perhaps it’s a NEW PARADIGM??

More like climate change.

Except… " the ’15 Copain Les Voisins syrah I tasted at the winery last month, which had a better balance of fruit and structure than these." is a California wine…is it now colder in California?

[John_Morris]

@Alan Rath

John, I wouldn’t even use the word “jammy” for the 15 Clape wines. Just good ripeness. Having said that, I often prefer cooler years where the wines have more tension, reserve, and complexity. A vertical of 11 through 15 would be quite interesting.

I haven’t tasted the Clapes. And, as I noted in the other thread, a '15 Balthazar Cuvee Casimir I tried two days after the blind tasting was much tighter and more classic than most of the wines we had in that tasting.

My take-away is that you may need to buy carefully in '15 if you want really classically structured wines.

[Robert.A.Jr]

@Keith A k e r s

@Robert Alfert

Thanks for the detailed notes, John. This is very helpful and I appreciate your attention to detail. By the way, for you, these are actually decent scores. I’m really surprised by the showing of Paris, perhaps I need to circle back and try a 30 or 60 again. I think my last attempt was the 2012 vintage, and it did not thill me any differently than prior vintages failed to thrill. I do like the Geynale, Which comes from a killer vineyard and has stem inclusion.

I guess my question is, what is your expectation when you drink them? The 30 is usually priced in the mid-30s, so for me, it’s a good, solid Cornas at a lower price.

My local guy has it for $39.99 plus tax. A total pass for me, just not my style. Not really a value play to me.

[Anders_G]

@Ramon C

@John Morris

Domaine Faury – Cote Rotie: [/b]Ripe black cherry nose, but with a nice contrasting tartness. Chewy in the mouth – more grip than most of these. Still lots of ripe dark fruit. Approachable now. At first this reminded me of young St. Josephs I drank in the 80s from people like Trollat – grapiness combined with a healthy measure of soft tannins. With more time in the glass, this seemed more serious, though the acid still seemed a little lacking. No signs of new oak, though it sees some. $60
My rank/score: 5th/89 points, but retasting after the rankings, I gave it 91, which would have put it in second place behind the Paris Cornas 60.


Dom. Faury – St. Joseph - Vieille Vignes:[/b] Rich black cherry and blackberry on the nose and a trace of sulfur. Rich, ripe, sweet, big, but with good structure. A tad hot, but with nice sweetness fruit on the finish. My descriptors don’t capture what I liked about the wine – that it seemed to have more backbone than most. $30
My rank/score: 2nd/90+ points

Thanks for the notes. As I noted in the other “2015 Rhone Buying” thread, I’m mostly a casual observer as I am not a buyer of the 15s, at least until I was poked with the TN on the 2015 Faurie VV Saint-Joseph.

Your note says you tasted 2 wines from Dom. Faury. Wasn’t one of them a Domaine Faurie, as in Bernard Faurie? The other TN in the other thread said “Faurie”. These are confusing producers in the same space with almost similar names and with similar stable of wines and I’m simply asking to clarify.

Bernard Faurie passed his plots in St-Joseph over to his son in law, the last vintage being the 2012 IIRC. He still continues to work the fruit of his Hermitage plots. His Hermitage Béssards-Méal 2015 was for me the highlight of the Marché aux vins last year, and it was the first time I saw him presenting a pure Béssards - only in Magnum though.
They also poured a St-Joseph 2009 which had been bottled only recently. I can’t remember why it was kept in barrel so long. It is very different to his regular St-Josephs and quite volatile, but very interesting nonetheless.

[Markus_S]

@Keith A k e r s

…The 30 is usually priced in the mid-30s, so for me, it’s a good, solid Cornas at a lower price.

Always wondered what the ‘30’ and ‘60’ meant. Now I know it’s tied to the pricing model.

[Markus_S]

@R M Kriete

@D@vid Bu3ker

@Markus S

Like the Field of Dreams, if you make a wine, the structure will come. I highly doubt these will fall apart over the next 1-3 years. But I have noticed, say post-2007, that Northern Rhones are getting frootier and full of lip-smacking gobs occur more often than not. Perhaps it’s a NEW PARADIGM??

More like climate change.

Except… " the ’15 Copain Les Voisins syrah I tasted at the winery last month, which had a better balance of fruit and structure than these." is a California wine…is it now colder in California?

Could be…but there might be a hint of smoke taint to deal with.

[Zachary_Ross]

@Anders G

Bernard Faurie passed his plots in St-Joseph over to his son in law, the last vintage being the 2012 IIRC. He still continues to work the fruit of his Hermitage plots. His Hermitage Béssards-Méal 2015 was for me the highlight of the Marché aux vins last year, and it was the first time I saw him presenting a pure Béssards - only in Magnum though.
They also poured a St-Joseph 2009 which had been bottled only recently. I can’t remember why it was kept in barrel so long. It is very different to his regular St-Josephs and quite volatile, but very interesting nonetheless.

Faurie’s son-in-law, Emmanuel Darnaud, is making pretty sick wine from Faurie’s Saint-Joseph vineyard. Bruiserweight stuff that needs time, quite like Faurie’s VV bottling in that sense.

[Arv_R]

Although I didn’t really care much for the 15 M.Graillot Equinoxe C-H a few days ago, I also generally like No.Rhones only after some age. So I’m not going to get too fussed about these.

I too don’t want the super savory olivey ones either.

[Alan_Rath]

Had the chance to sample the Balthazar Chaillot over several hours yesterday. The nose was fabulous, just the right combination of dark crushed fruit, earth, forest, and spice notes. There were different views around the table, but for me the wine had some nice dark, meaty blackberry fruit, a streak of excellent boysenberry acidity, but it was quite tannic, with quite a rustic character. Maybe more tannic than any other 15 I’ve had. I think this will be an excellent wine, but I wouldn’t touch one for 10-15 years.

[John_Morris]

Thanks for the report. Based on my experience with the Balthazar Cuvee Casimir, I assumed the Chaillots would be excellent and, probably, not so approachable now.

[CFu]

@Alan Rath

Had the chance to sample the Balthazar Chaillot over several hours yesterday. The nose was fabulous, just the right combination of dark crushed fruit, earth, forest, and spice notes. There were different views around the table, but for me the wine had some nice dark, meaty blackberry fruit, a streak of excellent boysenberry acidity, but it was quite tannic, with quite a rustic character. Maybe more tannic than any other 15 I’ve had. I think this will be an excellent wine, but I wouldn’t touch one for 10-15 years.

really great wine, especially at the release price of $50!

[John_Morris]

FYI, I tried the '15 Graillot Crozes today at an in-store tasting and it was quite good, and not Bojo-like. In fact, it’s less juicy and grapy than some Graillots at this stage. This was popped and poured. If you’re trying it now, I’d definitely give it a bit of air.

@Arv R

Although I didn’t really care much for the 15 M.Graillot Equinoxe C-H a few days ago, I also generally like No.Rhones only after some age. So I’m not going to get too fussed about these.

The '16 Equinoxe C-H was great if you like your fruit up front and real Northern Rhone syrah flavors. Sounds like you prefer more serious NRs, Arv, but for midweek current drinking, I think this would be terrific, particularly at less than $20. “Pizza wine,” as my friend said, before he bought a bunch.