Bingo! Wonderful post. You expressed my feelings exactly!
Keith;
Dah! What if the wine list is unimaginative and boring, and the (somm) does nothing in helping to select the wines? Why should the commie restaurant owner get to dictate what part of the tip goes to the different parties?
Do away with fix percentage split of tips!!!
Do you not understand how the patron feels when he leaves nada tip to the service and somm for poor service when he sees tables around him getting excellent service, and then learns that the Communist owner splits all tips received amoung everyone, and doesn’t give a shit about individual table service in his distributions of funds!!!
Good points, Keith. I definitely appreciate that a sommelier has a full-time job and takes time to put together the list. So if I’m taking no advice nor speaking with the somm, I’ll do usually 10% on the wine. As for the outsourcing of payroll as a tipping function … I have always found that a bit offensive on the part of the restaurant, and this is part of the way I protest it. I resent that most restaurants treat alcohol sales as nothing more than a profit center and don’t provide the service that matches such expectations. Often, wine service seems like an after-thought. But if a restaurant expects me to spend 50% or more of my bill on it, and then add on a regular tip like I do with food … I want service to match.
Of course, this makes it all the greater when there are those restaurants who go above and beyond to put together great wine lists and provide exceptional service. It’s just far too infrequent. I firmly believe the vast majority of restaurants – even many very fine restaurants – fail in their wine programs. They should be cellaring more wines, providing more than just current release selections, and making meaningful efforts to have knowledgeable servers. This is not to say, however, those who provide that level of service shouldn’t be rewarded for it.
Why differentiate between food and wine service? Service is service, and both are part of the same dining experience that evening (or afternoon, or morning). If I pay $300, or $500 for a bottle (not that I would), why should that enter into the calculation of a tip? Where does that thinking stop? Oh, that steak was overpriced at $50. It would have been more fairly priced at $25, so I’ll only leave a 10% tip to make up for that? I tip at least 20% for good service, less for bad service (well, unless I had the good fortune to be invited to a dinner with KA, at which time I would know going in the expectations for tipping).
I differentiate because the difference in the tip between the steak is $5 which is relatively negligible if the total bill is in the hundreds or more. The difference in the tip between a $100 bottle and a $1000 bottle based on 10% or 20%, to me is not negligible. In theory the same amount of work is performed in serving the two bottles.
At the other end of the spectrum, if I go to a diner and the bill for two comes to $15, if I’ve received good service, I would tip more than $3.00. For me, a steadfast rule of 20% works for meals works in general, but needs to be adjusted at both the low and high (when wine gets involved) ends.
And one reason to differentiate is the amounts and markups you pay for alcoholic beverages compared to food. If anything, we should be much more skeptical of the beverage service we get since restaurants are so open about the fact that alcohol is a prime profit source.
In other words, you decide what is fair, based not on the cost of the food and beverage, but on what you think is fair for the serviced rendered, and taking into considering the costs of the food and wine. This, to me, makes more sense than anything else. I like that thinking.
The whole idea is so damned arbitrary. If restaurants had to pay their staffs a real wage, none of this would be necessary. Maybe I should encourage my clients to tip my staff so that I could save money on salaries. (Didn’t the receptionist answer your calls beautifully. Perhaps a nice $5 tip for that?)
I’m on the same page as Jeff and Ray (though maybe more extreme). I do view the tip as a gratuity for service and so for me it has to be tied to the quality of service received. I also understand that servers these days all pretty much think they’re doing an excellent job and deserve a 20% tip, and I am willing to succumb to a certain degree of grade inflation. So if the service is reasonably commensurate with what I expect of an establishment at the relevant price level, I will generally tip 20%. (Yes, there is more leeway for forgetting a side dish, leaving my water unfilled, etc. at a diner than at an upscale restaurant.) If the service is substantially lacking, I am generally going to be between 12 and 15%. If the service is exceptional, taking into account what I expect from the establishment, I will often tip 25% or more.
I also adjust the tip if what I am ordering is way out of line with what would be expected at the restaurant. If I sit with someone for a full dinner and I only order dessert, I tip closer to what I would have left if I had ordered a dinner. I understand that my group has consumed the same table space and essentially the same service as a group that ordered full dinners. Conversely, if I order something priced way higher than anything else on the menu (and not requiring extra service), I do not necessarily tip on a percentage basis. My reasoning is that I may be willing to pay for some specialty as if I were eating at l’Espalier, but I’m not going to tip as if I were eating at l’Espalier unless the service is comparable to what I would expect there. I understand that some servers do not expect this – on either end of the spectrum – but again it is an expression of my view that the gratuity relates to the service that I received.
I apply the same sort of flexible approach to large wine bills (or other fancy alcohols). If I am ordering a wine that is way off the high end of the list, I don’t think a 20% tip on that bottle is within the server’s reasonable expectation. If the service is really exceptional, yes, I may do it; otherwise, my tip will look closer to what the waiter would have seen with an “ordinarily expensive” bottle. If, on the other hand, I’m eating someplace where everyone is ordering $100+ bottles of wine (not usual for me) I feel differently, even if the wine does come to 50% of the bill. My expectations for the service – and particularly the wine service – at such an establishment are correspondingly higher.
Me personally, I’m indifferent on this issue, but I lean towards tipping on the whole bill (full disclosure - only 15 or so of the 425+ bottles on my BTB list are over $100). When dining out, I tip on the entire bill, not the individual components.
The only time tips on higher end wines became an issue with my servers was when a business group pre-ordered a lot of $100+ bottles for a dinner. The wine bill was 3+ times the food bill. The dinner was for 30+ people.
Our restaurant’s policy is “a gratuity of 18% may be added to groups of 8 or more.” Normally, it is the server who makes the decision to auto-grat a large group.
In this case, I instructed the servers to NOT auto-grat this group due to the unusually large wine bill. They looked at me like I was insane.
It was a moot point, as the table added 20% tip to the total bill.
Tipping on BYO/Corkage is indeed the more difficult calculation. Having dealt with it tonight, I’ll give my process. I work it out two ways and choose one, the other, or split the difference depending on my mood.
First, 25% of the bill (assuming “typical” good service on which I would have otherwise tipped upwards of 20%. So that’s 5% above the norm for the food, plus 25% of the corkage as tip.
Second, tip the usual 20% but add an additional tip of 20% of what I paid for the wine I bring. I’m not going to tip the restaurant for what they’d have charged me for the wine!
Tonight we ate at a terrific haunt of ours. The bill was $143 for two (which included tax and $20 corkage). I brought a 1998 Quilceda Creek (lets say that cost around $100 new - probably less at the time, but that’s a good guestimate.
So the first way works out to $35-ish tip. The second way works out to $48-ish. Love the place, service is always top notch, so I left $50. Seemed fair.
Tons of BYO in the NJ and Philly area where in my experience, opening the wine represents the full extent of the wine service and some might argue that additional tip is unwarranted. If the food service was good and I brought wine, I tip around 25-30% of the bill. If I did not bring wine, I tip around 20%. I almost never reduce the basic tip, waiting tables is a lousy job with lousy hours.
Regarding ordering more “expensive” bottles, I think it is entirely reasonable to tip at a lower percentage. For example, the workload of serving one $100 bottle is about the same as serving one $1000 bottle. $20 tip on the first is inconsequental to most of enthusiasts; however, I dare say few would feel the same about a $200 tip on a hypothetical $1000 bottle. If a waiter expects the $200, I think this is unreasonable. Some patrons do not order wine and for those who do, the restaurant’s and waitstaff win out in all cases irrespective of the price point. For me, food tipping is straightforward but wine tipping is a judgement call depending on the overall quality of wine service and the restaurant. If ordering a somewhat pricey bottle (everyone has their own definition of expensive), rather than tip 20% on the wine, I do adjust downwards but have no formula.
Offlines of 6-8+ enthusiasts are a whole different beast in my view. The table is taken for 4-6 hours, which at some restaurants cuts the wait staff’s income in half for that table. There can be 12-25+ different wines…lots of work that should be compensated…in my view, the servers (and somm if attending) deserve big tips…double on the food since the table has been take for twice as long and probably a fixed dollar per bottle to the waitstaff.
Actually, it is a very fair 20% tip when the purchase price of the wine is added to the tip calculaation. The waiter served a $100-150 bottle of wine…are you suggesting that he or she be stiffed on the wine service?
You go to a high end restaurant with three or four others that serves excellent food, supplies good stems and provides excellent wine and overall service. You bring 6 or 7 bottles of wines that they properly handle and serve including decanting a few of the bottles.
The bill is $400 and you haven’t been charged any corkage - Since you think $200 is absurd, what tip do you leave?
$200 does not seems extravagent to me and I am unemployed! I’d like to understand why someone considers the $200 to be absurd. Frankly, under the circumstances that Ray describes (6-7 bottles, no corkage fees, good stems, decanting, etc.), it seems like a small price, but one in which the staff would probably welcome you back with open arms
Say the value of the 6 bottles of wines is $600. In this case, the $200 represents a 20% tip on a total value of $1000. The wait staff did work serving the wine and deserve something for the effort? Even if one adjusts the tip on the value of the wine to say a rockbottom 10%, the total tip would still be in the $150 range.
If we were not at the table all day, my thoughts would have been 20% of the food and $20-25 tip per bottle at really good resto with good stems, etc.
I must admit I despise tipping on wine that is already vastly overpriced
(the restaurateur buys it wholesale and frequently sells it to you three or four times the retail price).
I do not think a tip is deserved on wine, whereas it is the custom for food.
Therefore, shoot me down in flames if you will, but I do not tip the full whack on wine that I do for food.
And, I think that it is mad to pay such a percentage for an expensive wine.
![[training.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/d/d0f39866e5714408d7091b0bd2d7bb764d7bb973.gif "[training.gif]"){kind=small}
With a $400 bill, I don’t care if i brought my entire cellar there for free, $200 seems absurd to me…![[worship.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/9/99a8907a1d5b3c023582052741dc72dc9823c044.gif "worship"){kind=small}
![[scratch.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/4/42a16863a8714da3c1604419e3eb9206bb87aa50.gif "scratch"){kind=small}