Tip-toeing through wine-tipping etiquette. What to do??

WINE TALK
1

Went to a very fine Balto resto two nights ago after seeing the movie Invictus ( [thumbs-up.gif] [thumbs-up.gif] [thumbs-up.gif]). Decided to splurge and order a Bollinger NV for 125 clams with our excellent meal. The chef is truly inspired. I’ve been XXing out expensive wine re: tips for restos with so-so cellars, but happened upon one of the servers the following day in Whole Paycheck [wink.gif] (aka Whole Foods), so I inquired about my wine-tipping habit under such circumstances (the bill minus tax was 192 clams). He replied to my inquiry that most staff “are bent out of shape” when clients remove high wine charges from tipping considerations, so I concluded that I’d make amends next time I dine there. Before you conclude that I’m a cheapskate, I’ve tipped 100% at a resto in Athens that served me the very best seafood I’ve ever had. So, it seems there doesn’t exist a right or wrong answer here. I’m interested in simply seeking out a happy middle-of-the road approach. Thoughts???

Wine served with dinner – The safe recommendation is to tip 15-20% of the total bill, including alcohol, even for expensive bottles of wine. However, we’ve seen some restaurants say it’s OK to tip around 10% for expensive wines.
How to Tip at a Restaurant - FundFirst Capital" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And after talking or e-mailing with them, I concluded that there is no one established, accepted, unequivocal etiquette for tipping on a check whose lofty amount is reflective primarily of one or two bottles of incredibly expensive wine.
… This same sommelier said that few servers and few restaurants would be surprised — or feel significantly cheated — by a tip of 10 to 15 percent on a significantly high check whose principal component is pricey wine.
… After talking with the aforementioned sommelier, I got an e-mail from a big spender I know well, someone who likes expensive wines and doesn’t hesitate to buy them. And he has more than a few friends like him.

He wrote: “I think the general practice for most of my friends is to drop the tip closer to the 15 percent range on the total bill when the wine is a huge component (greater than 60 percent) of the cost.” He used the word “drop” because it’s usually his habit to tip 20 percent or more for excellent service in a restaurant.
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Restaurants report a percentage (around 12%) of the gross sales for food and beverage to the IRS for their staff. This means that if you have a $200 food bill and $200 wine bill, the restaurant will report 12% of $400 or $48 as income to the server. In other words, the server has to pay tax on it whether you tip it or not. If the restaurants do not report it accurately, the restaurant and the wait staff get audited by the IRS.

Please don’t get hung up on the 12%. It is just a reasonable example. I recommend tipping 10-15% on the alcohol and 15-20% on the food. 10% on the wine is perfectly acceptable. Whether to tip 10 or 15 percent would depend in large part on how helpful the server was in choosing the wine and serving it.
Tipping Etiquette Guide from FindaLink.net" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Proper tip on wine? Seeking waiter’s perspective
Several Chowhound posts among 82 replies: “I’m probably atypical in this respect, but as a waiter I don’t mind a customer tipping significantly less on a bottle as the bottle price rises or as bottles accumulate. If the kitchen doesn’t accidentally flambe your tartare and I keep up my end of the deal, I expect that I’ll receive somewhere in the neighborhood of 20% on food and the same amount on wine itself.

That is until wine reaches something like 100% of food costs. Once you’ve spent as much on wine as you have on food I think slack is in order. I think 10% or so is still warranted after you’ve reached/surpassed food costs, but 20% gets a little crazy. That said, once the price of a bottle passes $200 or so, it’s just kind of greedy to expect 20% (in my opinion!).

I’ve never really thought that out before, so I’m not sure that makes perfect sense, but it seems about right to me.”
… One of the problems with the wine tipping situation is that there are several different ways restos deal with the tip share; from paying the somm a salary and not expecting that person to rely on tips, to paying that person a bare minimum and expecting tips to be a major part of their income. If you do tip the somm separately, I (as a former somm) think it would be fair of you to ask that person if the server will still have to tip out, on the wine. While some people may be uncomfortable with this, if you are truly concerned with whether the server will have to sacrifice income, that is the quickest and easiest way to discover the restos tip share policy.
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/331264" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


[They] recommend a solution that is similar to the restaurateurs’ advice. Tip 15 to 20 percent on the total bill where wines cost less than $100 per bottle. This should cover most situations.

When wines are purchased that cost more than $100 per bottle, simply add a $20 tip per bottle, which is equivalent to a corkage fee.

http://www.almanacnews.com/story.php?story_id=3914" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2

If you got good service, I would tip 20% no matter what…on a $200 bill the difference between tipping 15% and 20% is $10.

3

Your reasoning is simple AND persuasive. Thanks.

4

MY first thought is that it depends on the size of the bill. If it $100 wine and $100 food, I tip fully on wine. If it was $500 wine and $200 food, I am hesitant to give $100 tip on wine.

However, that is often conflicted with “Sheesh, I just spent 500 clams on wine and now I am gonna count pennies on the tip?”, and I lay out 20% on the whole shebang.

In short, I have no “formula”.

5

There is no correct answer here…personal choices.

6

In Restaurants in Europe the bill is more seen as “one”, i.e. wine and food are never
seperated or seen as different items when it comes to tips.

I am always amazed about the extraordinarily expensive tips that are given to waiters
in the US - here in France or Switzerland you would not tip more than 10%, a lot of
people give nothing at all, even for good service (maybe thats the reason why service
is generally crap here).

Cheers
Christian

7

It’s a cultural difference. Waiters in France are decently-paid. In the US, waiters can be given a drastically reduced salary since there’s an understanding that they will receive tips.

8

On a $200 bill its not a big deal, but what about when the bill is $500, $700 or even more? I have had numerous business dinners in excess of $900 where $500-$600 was wine…does the server actually deserve a $100-$120 tip for pouring wine? My own personal opinion is no they don’t.


My typical rule of thumb is I usually bring my own wine and pay the corkage and pay 15-20% tip based on quality of service. Factors involved include whether the server actually served my wine or did I have to pour it myself because he/she was not attentive to the tables needs (I have had to do this on a # of occasions). If the service is in fact good, I tip 20% on the entire bill (wine corkage and food). Sometimes I give a little extra if the wine service was excellent as well.

When I travel on business and I don’t have the luxury of bringing my own. I typicaly will tip 20% on the food (providing service acceptable) and 10% on the wine. Just because I get a bill for $500 where $300 is wine, doesn’t mean that the server deserves an extraordinary tip. Other than pour the wine , what else did they do to earn $60 tip for that one (or two) bottles of wine? It is part of the service overall. I have no problem tipping 10% on the wine if the bill is rather large. He/she gets nice overall tip and I think it is sufficient.

At restaurants I frequent, I typically up the tip a bit because I am routinely serviced by certain individuals who provide excellent service and they have worked my table before on a number of occasions.

I took my kids for a nice Christmas lunch out to one of their favorite places (they were having dinner at their mom’s, so I had to settle for lunch). I tipped the waitress 30%. Just because it was Christmas and she did in fact give great service. I have also tipped 25% (on food) on certain holidays as well. And I have tipped considerably less for terrible service, which thankfully hasn’t happened very often.

As mentioned, there are no hard and fast rules, but I certainly do not feel obligated to give 20% no matter what.

Now if restaurants for the most part didn’t grossly overcharge for their wine to begin with, maybe my thought process might be slightly different.

9

Tons of BYOB options in eastern PA and many with impressive food. BYO or reasonable corkage restaurants are always my first choice. I have a pet peeve about being charged 2.5x - 4x+ retail for wine. My wine tipping depends on a combination of sticker shock and service. Great service and advice can largely make up for usurous pricing. The reverse is also true, as competitive bottle pricing can result in much higher % tipping. In general I try to tip approx 10% of the wine price, if the service, advice and/or pricing are excellent…that amount can go up to 20 - 25%.

RT

10

Generally I tip the following

If I byob and I’m not charged corkage 60-100% based on the number of bottles opened.

If I byob and I’m charged a reasonable corkage around 50%

If I order off the list then it depends on how expensive the wines were per bottle. Under $500 per bottle 20%, if over $500 per bottle, 20% on the first $500 and then 10% on the overage.

Additionally, if I’m with a group and the sommelier has opened and served a number of bottles, then the group gives between $50-$100 pp to the somm as well.

11

There is an $X in the wine portion over which I would be comfortable tipping less than my standard amount, but that $X is way above the $125 you mentioned. (Which is an obnoxious markup on that wine, but you respond to that by ordering something else, not by tipping less.) My practice is to tip 20% on food and wine ordinarily, decreased to 15% if I feel I’ve spent substantially more on wine than the average table. If I were to spend, say, $3k on one bottle I wouldn’t feel obligated to tip 15% on that, but I don’t order those bottles. HOWEVER, I think in that situation you have to take into account list price vs. market price - if you run up a $5k wine tab at Bern’s on bottles that would cost you $25k at auction if you could ever find them, you don’t skimp on the tip.

12

I’ll start by saying that most times I go out I order wines that are under $100/bottle and tip 20-22% on the whole bill. I do not think it’s reasonable for a server to expect that kind of % on a bill that’s largely wine. When wines over $100 get ordered, I think it’s fair to pay something like 10% on the wine or around $20/bottle. I would pay more than that (or 10% if it’s more than $20/bottle) for good wine service, which for me is about someone knowledgeable approaching and offering help without me having to seek them out and the wine being brought out in a timely fashion (well before the food it’s being paired with comes out). Like others here, I don’t have some black and white formula. If the place has a great wine program and a sommelier or other well trained wine steward really helps me out with selections, I think that warrants a good tip. However, if a group has spent $300 on food and $700 on wine, I think it’s far from reasonable for anyone to expect a $200 tip for serving some wines with the food (or to put it another way, a $140 addition to the food tip for serving a couple of bottles).

I have dined with people who tip 20% no matter what and I see no problem there if that’s what they want to do, but it’s not always going to be the way I go.

13

I’m not sure why the list price vs market price matters. Using another theoretical example (btw - there are very few bottles of wine on Bern’s list which are priced at 20% of auction) at Bern’s - say your wine bill at Bern’s is $25k and the fmv for those wines at auction is $35k, you would consider a $3500 tip just for the wine to be skimping?


14

I tried the 10% formula for a few years and stopped. I have tried to adopt Paul’s 20% all of the time (provided service is worthy), but like the example above, I cannot do it, usually.

If I BYO, I tend to tip 40%+…

15

If the somm helps in the selection of the wine by various methods, I will generally give the full 20%+ on wine. If they just take my order and deliver the wine, I’ll tip downwards to 10%.

The restaurant policy I really hate is the commie one. That is, all tips go into the pot and divided out of a pre-set policy formula. Some places let you tip the wait staff and somm separately others strictly use the commie method. I typically avoid restaurants that use the commie method, if I know they do so beforehand, if I’m choosing the restaurant!

16

so if you byob, and say have a steak dinner with 3 people. the bill comes out to $400…
you’d tip $200??

I guess it’s a cultural difference. People in Asia are also not tipped… in fact they would say no to you tipping.
They dont’ make a ton of money, in fact they compete to make a bit more than minimum wage.

It’s funny, when i worked in Beijing, it was pretty common after a large meal (with many people), with a significant bill, for the restaurant to provide a discount in hopes of promoting future business.

17

Well, I wouldn’t order a steak, but if I bring four or five bottles of wine and the bill is $400 with $50 or $60 corkage, and we’ve had excellent food, service and stemware, then yes, I think $200 is a reasonable tip.
And in my mind the $200 is actually more reasonable and deserved by the staff than if the food bill was $400 and I ordered a $700 bottle of wine.


18

The tip also depends on what I brought…as per the example…

3-4 people…$300 on food…4 btls BYO, no corkage, worth $400…then I would gladly tip $100-150 assuming good service, etc.

19

I do tip higher at BYOBs … because they are few and far between down here.

For me, the question of how much to tip on the wine depends on the process that helped you arrive at a bottle. If a sommelier or server is particularly helpful in picking out a bottle, I’ll tip accordingly. If I’ve asked no advice and choose myself, why should I tip them for allowing me to serve as my own sommelier? At too many restaurants, they pour so poorly, I don’t even let them pour the wine. Anything I give them in tip on the alcohol, therefore, I consider a bonus.

In general, my attitude is that a tip is for service. If you receive none, why should you expect something? That said, with wine, as with anything else, when you receive exceptional service, you tip accordingly. In cases where a sommelier does a particularly good job, I make sure to tip him directly.

I’ve had some nasty experiences at lower or mid-level restaurants (purely classified in terms of price) where they get bent out of shape over tipping or not over wine – on occasions when either stemware is completely inadequate, or they’ve had essentially no involvement in the wine other than pulling the cork. Ridiculous.

20

A few points -

First, you’re assuming that your personal interaction with the sommelier is the extent of the service he provides, but there’s a good deal more to it than that. A good sommelier selects the wines on the list (so you’re consuming his editorial services even if you don’t talk to him), tracks down old or rare bottles, manages the inventory, etc. That’s a full-time job before he even comes to the table.

Also, while I agree with you that a tip should be for service, that isn’t the way tips function in our culture. Tipping is just payroll outsourced from employer to customer. It’s a silly system in a lot of ways, but it’s the system we’ve got. So my view is that as long as the waitstaff is doing their jobs, you’re obligated to tip at least above a certain baseline. The alcohol tab is part of that, under the usual circumstances.