macdonald comes to mind…
WSPro’s “lowest price” is not always clear cut, even to someone intending to be honest about it. Some of the lowest prices may be listed on sites that don’t actually have it in stock anymore, or be at a retailer who doesn’t ship, or doesn’t ship outside of the city or state, or from whom you have to buy a case minimum, or various other things.
I’ve been a buyer on here for many years, I scrutinize prices pretty hard, and I’ve never noticed this to be a significant problem. But I would agree in concept that, if someone is misstating WS low or WSPro low and anyone notices, it would be appropriate to politely correct the record.
I dont see much Macdonald getting flipped at all. With most of you only getting a 3 bottle allocation, most people who buy it drink it. Id bet less than a case gets resold here two max. Really not a problem
Not Gentaz. I do think I was partially responsible for the Truchot explosion.
I guess I am in the minority here with my view that this is actually a community. If you wanted to by a bottle of Gentaz from me and I wanted to sell one and there was one bottle on wine-searcher for $4000, I personally would not say pay me $4,000. If I sent it to auction and it goes for $4k so be it. That is just me and I don’t sell wine other than moving small lots of things I don’t like to winebid to make room.
I am on the same page as you, Robert. Both sides should benefit from trading here if possible, and the risk of buying from an individual, not being able to use a credit card etc. should be taken into consideration when pricing. I put some wine up once, something that trades regularly at auction, and the interested buyer wanted to buy at the usual hammer. I argued for splitting the difference between hammer and buyer’s premium. I do a little better than I’d do selling at auction, and he paid a little less than he would buying at auction. But he wanted the whole benefit. Doesn’t seem community spirited.
The hammer price seems reasonable. You save the seller’s fee and he saves the buyer’s premium.
Andrew,
“The hammer price seems reasonable. You save the seller’s fee and he saves the buyer’s premium.”
Seller fees are rarely charged based on quality, quantity and value. It’s a very competitive arena when these qualities are met, based on reserve value.
Winebid, on the opposite perspective, charges a sellers premium, and your analysis would be accurate, also very low reserve prices at winebid. GOOD for the buyer, negative for the seller. I suspect they will take any consignment, which has value in some situations.
SOOOOOOOOO:
What should I price this 12 bottle case of 1990 Rayas, Fonsalette in OCB, excellent condition, purchased on release:
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WINE SEARCHER: The vintages listed above are available.
Offers for the 1990 vintage are available in other locations
The most recent global average price we have for Chateau de Fonsalette Cotes du Rhone Reserve 1990 is $503 USD (June 2020)
Available here:
Seckford Wines, ONE available
UK flag UK: Suffolk
International shipping available.
Worldwide Delivery
Price list collected: 15-Jul
Merchant delivering throughout Covid 19 lockdown
Cotes du Rhone, 1990,Ch de Fonsalette
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Bottle (750ml) $ 470.69 in-bond, ex. taxes Go to Shop
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Y18 Global Offer- ONE available
Hong Kong flag Hong Kong
Only ships to Hong Kong
Free local delivery on orders over $3000.
Price list collected: 15-Jul
Merchant delivering throughout Covid 19 lockdown
Cotes du Rhone Fonsalette, Ch de 1990 (1 x 750ml)
???
This is a wine because of its rarity would be tough to price. The auction price is way below retail; the four times it has sold in the last year and a half, it has ranged from $186-275. On the other hand, it would be pretty desirable to be able to get the wine in case quantity, not have to deal with tariffs etc. if it were me, I would price it a tad south of $4k.
I’ve never had to pay a seller’s fee. If we transact at hammer, I’m getting exactly what I’d get at auction. Split the difference seems fair and equitable.
Even if there were a seller’s fee, it’s generally not anywhere near the usual buyer’s premium.
OK let’s assume there’s no seller fee. Still auction is not guaranteed as a seller. Selling to a private party for cash is guaranteed. On the flip side buying at auction there’s always the potential to snag a deal. You might pay much less than the last auction.
All that given, I personally would never pay full auction value plus half the buyer’s premium for an auction I didn’t even get to participate in. But to each his own.
You don’t think 12% below auction is a good deal? How much do you expect to save? The example I gave, and said specifically, was of something that trades at auction all the time with little variation. You are free to disagree, but I don’t see why I should sell here on CC for the same exact price I expect to net from the auction house, when the buyer gets a 24% savings. I do think a buyer should be happy to buy 12% or so below where they could reasonably expect to pay at auction. That price is still below retail. We should both do better. Why should the buyer do 24% better even of auction price when I do 0% better? How is that fair?
Meeting the midpoint, 1/2 the bid ask spread, is generally considered fair to both parties in crossing networks.
Specifically because the auction is not guaranteed - on either side. I might pay less, you might sell for less. But I respect your desire to get your number. I’m just letting you know the number I personally would feel was fair, which is more in line with your other buyer that you thought was out of line.
can we define “cellar blowout” too?
too often there is 1 or 2 stores in the country with a wine someone is trying to sell. W-S low is even more irrelevant at this point
But I also might sell for more, if there’s another buyer willing to go there. And I can guarantee my minimum by setting a reserve.
What I hear you saying is that you are the only one who deserves to benefit from an agreed upon price. I’ve worked in finance for many years, dealing largely with crossing networks, and I assure you that few people agree one side deserves all the benefit. Certainly not third party regulators.
You have every right to decide at what price you’re willing to transact. But calling it fair is a stretch.
Auction houses are nowhere near as transparent as one would think. There are hidden fees such as insurance for both buyer and seller, as well as long payouts in addition to a couple of months waiting for the consignment to hit the auction.
OTOH clients with large consignments can call the shots; they often get a percentage of the buyers commission, they will also have guaranteed minimums. Auction houses may also do a private purchase, and then auction the wines themselves.
Yes you might sell for more, but if you want to take that gamble that’s on you. You can set a reserve but that doesn’t mean a sale. That just means you won’t sell for less. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
You’re not the only one who has been around the block with deals. I’m just saying you’re getting a better deal than you suppose by selling for the recent auction price.
“Auction houses are nowhere near as transparent as one would think. There are hidden fees such as insurance for both buyer and seller, as well as long payouts in addition to a couple of months waiting for the consignment to hit the auction.
OTOH clients with large consignments can call the shots; they often get a percentage of the buyers commission, they will also have guaranteed minimums. Auction houses may also do a private purchase, and then auction the wines themselves.”
PRECISELY MARK,
Auction house buyers premium, 24% of $500,000.00 = $120,000.00 gross income for the auction house.
The consignor selects/approves the reserve value per lot, thereby eliminating the risk of a low ball bid.
Consignor pays ZERO fees, including shipping, insurance, catalog and no/sale expenses.
If your consignment is “small”, less the the houses’ cost of doing business, FORGET IT, no DEAL for you!
Additionally, in a private non-auction transaction, there are no sales tax issues, beneficial to the purchaser.
If one is consigning $10,000.00 of wine, you will likely pay the MAX in fees!
More broadly than this specific issue, I like it on these very rare occasions when we talk about buying, selling, pricing, shipping, etc. on Commerce Corner.
I get the rule that you don’t do it within threads about specific offers (“dude, your pricing is crazy, I can buy that bottle for less at K&L”), but I think it’s good for us to talk out some of the recurring issues in a macro sense and without interfering with anyone’s specific sale effort.