While the farming comments are somewhat true historically, and grapes might have been grown more as farm crops, for a long time now most wineries that are any good at all have a high degree of control over how the grapes are grown, yields, canopy management, fruit dropping, etc, even with regard to vineyards that they don’t own and are just sourcing grapes from. They are in the vineyards frequently (weekly or more often) over the growing season.
The other knock against WA wineries historically (10-15 or more years ago) was a tendency to make all wines in the same manner (eg handle a Syrah in the same way that you were handling your Cab., including harvesting your grapes in the same way/same time.) This I think in most any cases, in even the average wineries, is long gone and no longer a legitimate complaint.
I think, like most regions, you have to be choosy, and that while the WA wines that I love I love a TON, I’d say that in general it IS fair to say that the state makes big, syrupy, boozy wines on the whole. That’s not the style I like, and I choose the producers I buy from carefully to suit my palate, but if you were to throw a dart you’d probably not hit Reynvaan or WT or Cadence or Rotie or K. Not sure why this guy keeps subjecting himself to WA wine if he so vehemently hates it. I stopped drinking Zinfandel because I don’t like it but I don’t go all over CT trashing it. Dude has an axe to grind for sure.
Out of curiosity, have you had any of their more recent vintages (2013+)? The winemaking has taken a hard left turn toward lighter wines in recent years. I think at least their $40+ syrahs (powerline, hidden, klein, royal city, etc) tend to be some of the lightest and most elegant in the region outside of some of the more culty names like Reynvaan, newcomers like WT, or iconoclasts like Savage Grace. Their lower tier and Wines of Substance wines definitely still tend towards a big ripe style for sure.
I do agree with lots of folks here that the price really can be an issue, I think in general WA wine is expensive. There are definitely lots of good wines in WA, but for my palate there isn’t much if any wine made in WA below $20 retail that is worth drinking, and you can definitely do way better dollar for dollar elsewhere for the most part. What I will say about WA wine is that if I buy a WA wine that’s ~$15-30 with a normal-looking label and grapes I recognize it is VERY likely to be drinkable and most palates will find it enjoyable if not exactly profound. I feel like that’s definitely worth something, and not something I’d say about most of the world.
I think The Rocks is definitely a pretty unique and special thing but you definitely have to pay for it. With Northern Rhone prices going up in the last few years good deals on funky Syrah are harder and harder to find, so this may balance out in the long term, but as it stands, Rostaing Cote Rotie Ampodium is still cheaper than every Rocks wine except Two Vintners Some Days Are Stones and Rotie’s Northern Blend as far as I can tell. Christophe Baron wines are $100+ and outside of BDX, Burgundy, Napa, and Guigal, that will buy you some of the best wines in the world (lets not even get into Hors Categorie…).
All this sounds like I love to trash WA wine, when in fact it’s the majority of our cellar and what we drink a lot of. We came up drinking WA wine and feel a definite affinity for the region, but we’ve started assessing the value proposition it represents and are trying to think a little more critically about it and you all get to be the beneficiaries of my internal monologue word vomit.
Ron, keep in mind that New Yorkers have much better access to N Rhone stuff then us Seattle plebs, but in my limited experience there are a few that are wonderful for less than Cayuse (though not “many times” less).
I love Rene Rostaing Cote Rotie Ampodium and it’s usually ~$50, very elegant and meaty.
Clusel Roch Cote Rotie is affordable and pleasurable in the same way if less profound.
Balthazar Cornas used to be much cheaper and is delish, but it’s upwards of $80 these days.
I recently had a 2013 Reynvaan Contender ($75) and a 2013 Gilles Barge Le Combard ($55) side by side and they were surprisingly similar.
I don’t have as much luck with St. Jo or Crozes Hermitage so no recs there unfortunately. It does pay to keep in mind though that Clape Cornas is “only” $90.
I do love all the Baron and Baron-adjacent wines however. I don’t think there’s a Northern Rhone wine that is 1:1 100% comparable.
john - noted. I wasn’t the one who asserted wine grapes are (or were) grown like other crops. I agree with you: by and large, most Washington wineries are quite involved in vineyard management. Some of the best are deeply involved. Non-Washington folks who only dabble seem to get hung up on the notion that Western Washington-based winemakers have nothing to do with and little knowledge/control of/over their vineyard sites. That’s patently untrue.
bryan - I have had some of the post-2013 K Vintners Syrahs and really like them, as I think I mentioned. I wouldn’t classify them as light, but could see elegant. To me, they strike a fine balance between those wanting definite fruit but with some Syrah typicity but are turned off by the (sometimes) aggressive gaminess/savoriness from Rocks Syrah.
I think that’s definitely a fair assessment, I think “light” is an overstatement on my part, perhaps more in a relative sense on the scale of WA Syrah, but yes not light in an absolute sense.
We did a “High End WA” tasting at the 2nd CellarTracker Charleston Offlineorama.
So much sweet red fruit.
So much vanilla.
It was not well-received by the majority of the tasters.
I am a big fan of Betz and Cayuse, but have not been very impressed with many others.
I forgot to mention something I found very interesting when we visited Walla Walla.
Among the 30+ wineries we visited, there were four different winemakers who had a very interesting observation about the region:
It’s an incredibly wealthy town, many people have money from agriculture and aspire to make wine. There’s a college there where people can take viticulture courses and they just churn out students who go throw a ton of money at land and new facilities.
That’s a highly summarized statement but seemed to ring true. It’s become a “thing to do” up there, and many are not taking the time to really learn the craft. This dilutes the industry in an interesting way. Lots of opportunity, they just haven’t grown up yet!
I find it mildly annoying when one goes on an editorial journey in public TNs
Why?
Isn’t the entire point of a public TN to proclaim your opinion? Some people like to play the careful professor, some the serious critic, some the happy wine lover, and some the highly opinionated guy. I never knew there was some kind of protocol regarding the tone of a TN.
As for the accuracy or reasonableness of an opinion, the more extreme, the better. The writer obviously had a small percentage of wines from both Washington and France, but given that as others stated, WA is a very young region and in terms of types of wine, far far smaller than France, it’s not really a great comparison.
However, there isn’t one single WA style. There are a lot of them that are modeled on big huge Napa wines, but Napa itself isn’t all big huge wines. And there are increasing examples of wines from WA that . . .
Well let me put it this way - Chambers Street would sell them.
It’s an uninformed opinion, but I’ve had plenty of gooey WA wines in the last few years.
As well as really good, interesting, and delicious wines. The writer just needs to look around a bit more.
I suppose that’s true to a certain extent, but I don’t see how that’s different from anywhere. Is there money in Cali? or Portland? Are there a bunch of mediocre, middling wineries in these areas, as well as stellar ones? the surprising thing to me is that more wineries aren’t being culled in WA–I would have expected far more that really have no clue to go out of business.
Reynvaan is my go to Rocks Syrah (Cayuse is a bit more thick and gloppy to me).
MTR is a new derivative of Reynvaan which is new and seems to be very similar.
Rotie Cellars is an excellent QPR for a Northern Rhone. Their Rhone whites are also VERY nice and inexpensive.
Proper makes a nice Syrah as well.
Not a big fan of Betz. Don’t like K. Sleight of Hand can be good but a bit over the top.
For Cabs - I like Figgins, Rasa, Doubleback, Force Majeure, Andrew Will. Not over the top wines IMHO.
Gramercy is fine, but maybe not in my wheelhouse.
Also have seriously appreciated FM Series 4 Merlot blend - not sure they make this any more.
The simple truth is that it’s much cheaper to start and run a winery in WA than it is in Sonoma/Napa or the Willamette Valley. This allows the crappy ones I referenced earlier to stay afloat much, much longer.
Thanks for the suggestions Bryan! I will definitely look for some of those.
I do think on the Rocks score, Rotie is one of the best deals around. Their Northern Blend really is a delicious wine. I also like their Hommage and DRE. Cayuse single vineyards are I think 80 a bottle now? So not over 100 yet, but probably so on the secondary market.
I do think there are some good and interesting wines in WA. I do think price is a bit more challenging, but not nearly as crazy as I find California. I think in WA (as in most places including CA), you have to search and find the gems. As BRR mentions above, the WA wine market on the supply side has exploded – and there are many second or even third career types that have jumped in. Some probably have developed a lot of knowledge and might be producing good wines, but many/most probably are not. It used to be (15-20 years ago) that you could easily know all of the major quality wine producers in the area. That is much harder these days, and will only continue to get harder.
Oh yes on MTR. I forgot about them. The other winery that should be mentioned is Delmas. Very elegant – though pushing 70 a bottle I think?
My limited experience with No Girls suggests it also can be a bit less of the thick and gloppy that you describe as Cayuse. (On that score, I actually have found that with some of the Bdx blends, and maybe some of the mid 2000s syrahs, they would be what I describe as thick and gloppy, sometimes like a milkshake even. But generally I find the Cayuse syrahs to be more earthy and complex – but that is also personal taste I suspect!).
I stopped paying attention to WA state except for QC for years. Just found, for the most part the wines were boring. I’ve recently started trying them again and have found a few producers I’m now really liking. Avennia, Gramercy and Delille. I find that for me, primarily a cab drinker, they bridge the gap between Napa & Bordeaux. The Avennia Sestina is a hard qpr to beat from any region imo.
Walla Walla is a very small town, tucked at least an hour+ away from any decent sized city. It’s a hugely wealthy agricultural town where the natural progression is wine. They have very few options (unless you move) of things to spend their money on. It’s completely different in Portland and Napa.
Yes I just looked at my most recent order. The single vineyard Syrahs are 80 per bottle. The exception is Armada, which is 90 – and in my humble opinion, well worth the extra $10. Bionic Frog has jumped the 100 line, now selling for 105. Pretty good prices I think given the quality – and they could clearly charge more if they wanted to. So we long term buyers appreciate the restraint!
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