Thoughts on Domaine de la Vougeraie

WINE TALK
21

Merci ----Anthony. [cheers.gif]

22

Had no idea that the moose was that rare. Got a couple of bottles of the 2010 which I suspect will outlive me.

23

Dan…moose from the following 4 producers are not rare : Vouge; Mugnier, Prieur and Drouhin.

The next other smaller land-owners are rare : Leroy 0.27 ha…and then Vogeraie 0.21 ha…etc…etc…

Here is the complete list of land-owners ( composed by Gerhard ) :

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Vogüe 4,1935 + 2,9273 + 0,0213 (planted?) = 7,1421 ha
Mugnier 1,1358 ha
Prieur 0,7660 ha
Drouhin 0,6720 ha
Leroy 0,2700 ha (0,19 ex-Moine-Hudelot)
Vougeraie (ex-P.Ponnelle) 0,2104 ha
Jadot 0,1665 ha
Drouhin-Laroze 0,1193 ha (ex-Moine-Hudelot)
Roumier 0,0996 ha
Dufouleur 0,0980 ha
Ch.Confuron 0,0760 ha
Faiveley 0,0338 ha
Commune de Chambolle 0,0245 (most probably unplanted)
Bertagna 0,0208 (most probably unplanted)
Montelie-Douhairet-Porcheret (ex-Bilik) 0,0156
Bernard Clair 0,0051 ha (planted? Grapes sold?)

total 10,8555 ha

  • but at least two parcels seem to be unplanted,
    the Clair-parcel remaining a mystery.

So 13 regular bottlings seem to take place, but
of course several negociant-bottlings from purchased grapes (from whom?) turn up now and then. *****

24

First, Dusty—welcome! Hope this initial foray will embolden you to post more thoughts and notes. Thanks for diving in.

I have to agree with Chris on the Pascal-made wines. I’ve tried a few of them now, most recently a 2002 Pommard Les Petits Noizons, and they miss the finesse and panache of Burgundy for me. There may be some terroir elements at play, but all over-extracted and big.

haere ra,

25

Sorry for the delayed response, but thanks Mike! I picked up some 09’ Vougeraie “Marconnets” to give it a try. I just know that my local wine shop can get this stuff fairly regularly, but I hate to fly completely blind when it comes to Burgundy. Sounds like it might be a good transitional wine for folks more accustomed to big Cali Pinots.

26

Dusty…it is never late when we are dealing with wines from Burgundy.

I re-read this thread again. There are 2 ( different ) styles of Vougeraie ( which was started in vintage 1998 ) : (1) Pascal from vintage 1999 to vintage 2005 and (2) new wine maker Pierre Vicent from 2006 to now.

Poeple who know Pascal wines will never call them over-extract. Over-extracting sometimes may imply the wine is un-balance. Why would Pascal make un-balance wines since he has been making wine ( or made himself a name ) since 1980s when he started his venture with C. Armand. C.Armand best wine : Clos des Epeneaux 95…just started to reach his top recently.

What I am trying to say is : Pascal crafted wines in Vougeraie for long bottle-aging which needs extraction to have complexity with age.

Vougeraie’s wines from vintage 2006 on are made by Pierre Vicent. Meadows talked about his new style and also Jasper in his book ( see Post No. 4). Bill Nanson likes him also.

So you 2009 will be wine of softer style and easier approach wine - which should be very different that wines crafted by Pascal. Just my 2 cents.

Tasted the 2009 Gevrey Chambertin off the list after work. Thought it was beautiful and promptly bought a few for the cellar. Not overblown in any way at the time I tasted it. Delicious, pure fruits with typical Gevrey metallic/mineral twang.

27

Well, Peter, then perhaps I haven’t had one with enough age, but (and with me very much respecting your view and knowledge!) I think I need to disagree with your view here. After 10 years, I would expect a wine to be able to show its innate quality/qualities. I’ve had the Petit Noizons at least 4 times that I can think of and always found them to miss the classicism I would prefer to see in my red Burgs. I have had a couple other Vougeraies and, while not as marked in this regard, still found them to be bigger than is my preference.

To be quite fair, I have never had the pleasure/opportunity of trying one of his Armand-crafted wines.

OTOH, I still was curious enough to pick up one of Pascal’s own 2008 Vosne Suchots. Would you suggest leaving this for another decade or more? I am willing to do that if you think it will show best.

Many thanks for engaging in the discussion, and to you, Dusty, for starting it.

28

Had the 09 Vougeraie Chambolle Musigny Village last week. A stunner for its level and certainly a good example of current style.

29

Mike…my comment re over-extraction is not aim at your comment. To be fair…I used to use the over-extraction comment when engage in discussion with Dugat-Py wines ( speially his Chambertin ) until his importer ( or ex-importer ) pointed out my mis-statement ( in that they are balanced wines - but big, big wine ).

Regarding Pascal wines, I stopped buying Armand wines after 1999 vintage. For Pascal wines while he was with Vougeraie, I do not have much extensive experience with the low level wines. I only bought mutiple bottles of Vougeraie Musigny and B-Mares from vintge 1999 and vintage 2000.

With regarding to Pascal wines after he left Vougeraie. I have no comments at all, at all and felt sad for him [cry.gif]

You are a brave soul, Mike and thanks for supporting Pascal - which SAQ carries some of them. [wink.gif]


OTOH, I still was curious enough to pick up one of Pascal’s own 2008 Vosne Suchots. Would you suggest leaving this for another decade or more? I am willing to do that if you think it will show best.

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30

Sadly…SAQ does not carry too many Vougeraie wines . I love to have a chance to try them as Bill Nanson really like them…

31

Peter, thought you might be interested in the parcels used:
Les Baudes -
Surface: 0,0688
Geographical situation: parcel in mid-slope, below Les Bonnes Mares.
Exposure: East-facing.
Plantings: 1918/1919 1973/1974
Les Condemeines et les Chardannes -
Surface: 0,247 ha
Geographical situation: Les Chardannes: parcel in mid-slope; Les Condemennes: close to the village of Vougeot
Plantings: 1965/1966 1966/1967
Les Véroilles -
Surface: 0,19 ha
Terraced parcel, above Les Bonnes Mares
Plantings: 1989/1990
Les Argilières -
Surface: 0,098 ha
Geographical situation: parcel bordering Musigny
Plantings: 1989/1990

Some good climat.

Cheers Mike

32

I just got offered the '11 Musigny. It’s certainly not cheap.

33

I confess, no experience (sniff, sniff) with the BM or Musigny—I’m sure they might have changed my view [grin.gif]

Thanks for your additional thoughts, Peter. I do hope we get to spend some time together sometime.

maluhia,

Mike

34

Betcha not…
standard G.C. oak treatment with his style = meh

35

Ah, but if I could but have the chance to get empirical data… :slight_smile:

36

I bought ( by chance ) the Musigny and B-Mares on discount sale and happy I did.

The Musigny 99 did not taste ( at age 5 ) like a Musigny at all but more like a 2007 Mgm CNDP [cheers.gif].

When 99 Vougeraie Musigny was at discount by Signature, I bought 2 bs ( $ 199 regular price ) and tried one. The wine was balanced but very massive and unyielding - similar to 1990 C. Armand - Clos des Epeneaux in structure and style. I kept the wine in open big Burgundy baloon glass and tracked the evolvement for the next 3 days. I went back and bought the reminding 7 bottles. Same happened with the 1999 B-Mares and 2000 Musigny and B-Mares - all on discount sale.

2008 Vougeraie Musigny is currently available at Signature at $ 630 - which is more expensive than Drouhin, Jadot, Vogue and double the price a bottle of Prieur. At that price, I did not buy any… [wow.gif]

37

Mike…there are many way to enjoy Burgundy wines. Burgundy is complex and lots of exception and then exceptions within exception.

The basic point ( or most important point )…trusts your fav producers and the 2nd basic point open oneself to the other producers. Most of the producers know what they are doing as their trades come normally within their families.

I have been doing comparative tastings since vintage 1995. For example, matching Musigny ( of the same vintage year ) from 4 different producers and Chambertin/CdBeze ( of same vintage year ) from 4 to 5 producers.

Each styles are different and each of them have their beauty. Rousseau CdBese will be prefer in every comparativ tasting specailly so when young, but by the time the gained age…their difference will be less and at full maturity they are equally fascinating ( in each of their own way ). Just my 2 cents.

For example, given the difference in price nowaday. I will not buy any Rousseau CdBeze.

38

As to my thoughts, I just have only tasted a couple of their village level wines from 2002 and holding on to the others for a few years before passing judgement. My thought is that the Boisset family did not create this entity to make plonk.

39

Boisset family actually has 2 operations : Domiane Vougeraie and their negoc arm with the label under the name : Jean-Claude Boisset.

40

The pre-2006 wines are way too oaky for me and they have failed to ever Wow me.