I’m looking to get a few northern Rhone reds (I seem really to like them) and these look good from a QPR perspective. What do people think of them as a good value as compared to Cote Rotie and Hermitage? I’m looking for distinctive, terroir-driven wines.
Thanks.
I like the wines a lot.
The classic guys like Voge and Clape are my favorites. They are much cheaper than Cote Rotie or Hermitage. Also much different wines.
They are even much different than St Joseph. I love them all for what they bring to the table.
FWIW.
Just me, but I’d always prefer to spend the extra few bucks (at least here) for Hermitage which is my fav N. Rhone or Cote Rotie. I’ve not found any Cornas (Clape, Voge, Verset, Allemand) to reach the same heights as either great Hermitage or great examples of Cote Rotie.
At least to date.
If you’re comparing the best Cornas to the best Hermitage and the best Cote-Rotie I think they’re all at the same level. But frankly I think all three regions seem to suffer from an excess of boring producers. Quick, think, what’s the 2nd best Hermitage after Chave? It’s a toughie. I guess it’s true that Cornas remains a good value because we’re comparing $120 or so for the best Cornas to $200+ for Chave, but on the other hand those Cornas are running more than Jamet. I guess my final analysis is buy Cornas if you dig Cornas, not because it’s a QPR Northern Rhone. The best value Northern Rhone is probably Brezeme or Gonon anyway.
+1 They are all distinctive wines - buy what you like (or can afford).
Cornas is way too different to be a poor mans Hermitage or C-R, and the good ones are pretty damn pricey anyway.
Great point on Hermitage - besides a small amount of Chave, I have only La Chapelle from the 90s (no 1990 alas) and a smattering of Guigal.
Due to my Jamet addiction, I have a bit more C-R than Cornas, but Cornas will likely overtake this year or next.
The deals are all in St. Joseph, unless you really like Crozes I guess, then the deals are probably there.
But there is certainly lots of boring St.J, not to mention tons of Crozes.
I totally agree with the above statement. I have found some great examples from Voge, Clape, and Allemand that rival many of the best in the northern Rhone, but the field is not as deep as it should be, considering the area and terroir. The last Cornas I consumed was the 2005 Domaine du Tunnel, which was purchased because it was a screaming deal at the time, was awesome.
I think that the best QPRs are still found in Croze Hermitage and St Jopeph, which are still significantly undervalued relative to their more vaunted brethren. My favorite QPRs lately out of the Northern Rhone are:
Yves Cuilleron Syrah 2010 - Rolls in at about 20 bucks and kills it for great, tasty, not overly done Northern Rhone Syrah.
Alain Grailliot Croze Hermitage - Amazing, easy pick up any vintage and usually comes in at under 35 bucks.
Domaine Haut Chassis Croze Hermitage “Les Galets” 2008 - This is a great wine that shows amazing complexity for the $25 buck tariff.
Domaine Romaneaux-Destezet VdP (Ardeche) Syrah 2009 - One of my WOTY in 2011. Screaming example of the greatness of the Northern Rhone and costs about 30 bucks.
For me, Cornas is the last refuge of traditionalism, though even there it is being tested. Cote Rotie has been overcome by modernization, extraction and oak in too many cases. Hermitage is living too much on its reputation, with quality in many cases not up to the standards I believe are possible there.
Just one guy’s opinion, of course, but I find a much higher percentage of wines from Cornas give me what I’m looking for than the other two regions, with certain notable exceptions, of course.
Allemand’s 91s are ready, but it is a fairly rugged vintage everywhere in the North.
HRH JR doesn’t like them, but a retrospective of Cornas of all ages a year ago showed how brilliant they are.
Allemand, Verset, Michel & Paris are probably my favourites but I haven’t had enough Clape to really comment on them.
There are some oak monsters from the likes of J-L Colombo & co so it isn’t plain sailing but when they are good, they are my favourites in the Northern Rhone.
Jeez, what a f*cking waste of three bottles of 1985 Verset. I mean, a bad bottle is a bad bottle, but one has to wonder whether these were in fact bad bottles or just simply misunderstood.
The other thing to consider is that Guigal controls something like half of all Cote Rotie production and I think Chave is inching up on that level in Hermitage, after buying up a lot of land, so the choices are fewer and fewer outside those two producers, whose prices are high.
Sadly, true. Sigh. For someone who bought Clape and Verset for $7-$8 in the mid-80s, when Cote Rotie and Hermitage were $20+, it’s a different world.
I disagree. Clape has generally been pretty drinkable from 8 to 10 years, though it could last much longer. I’ve had 91, 94 and 99 Allemands in recent years that were all drinking nicely. Verset certainly requires a lot of time, though.
We don’t seem to discuss, or even mention the N Rhone ‘rule of fifteen’ on this particular board.
Admittedly I have had precious few from the 80s, and the ones I see out there from producers I think will last tend to be out of my price range. I’ve had pretty good luck w/ 90s vintages up through say 1996. Chambers Street had 1990 Robert Michel Cornas with great pricing last summer - this showed very nicely when I had my first bottle in November. Last summer 1998 Allemand Chaillot was certainly drinkable, but still quite backwards - 15 yrs minimum for that one for me.