Personally I use the same reasoning for why I don’t drink much French wine. I have to pay double for a Burgundy of comparable interest, compared to California. Granted I have much more experience with Cali chardonnay/pinot than Burgundy, but my bias is what it is.
“Entry-level” Cali chardonnays I thought had great QPR:
Laird, Calera, Dierberg, Ramey SC.
Granted these tend to be more of a oak/butter style (yet still balanced) than a typical 1st cru Burgundy, but that’s my preferred style.
“Entry-level” QPR pinots (other than previously mentioned):
Ladd, Morgan 12 clones, Calera, Bailiwick.
In general I think it’s easier to find better QPR chardonnay than Pinot Noir in California … of course, a huge generalization.
These Burg producers that make GREAT Chard (or Pinot) for less than $40-50 but be the best kept secret, because I regularly find more ‘value’ per dollar spend on California versions than their Burg counterparts.
If I drink a LF White Hill and a $40 White Burg, the burg is probably not 1er level at that price point, and if it is, it is a hit or miss producer or a shaky vintage.
If I drink a $60 White Burg and a Ceritas Chard, the burg may be premoxed, but the Certias will give me minerality, complexity, and a unique character I can get behind.
I love White Burgs, but they are a minefield from a QPR standpoint, in my experience.
Now for “entry level” wines, I might go either way. Entry level being in the $20-30 range for either locale.
One major issue is labor. As the saying used to go; “You can get someone to pick your fruit in France, Italy or Spain for a cup of soup and a bottle of wine a day, where in California, it’s all union, and you can make $300-$400 a day picking fruit.”
Not to mention the number of wineries in California that have to purchase fruit, rather than grow their own, which also adds to the bottom line big time. Most of the wines coming out of Europe come from family owned vineyard sites with their own vines, or grape growers using the local co-ops.
In general I agree and that’s why I started buying Burgundy once I began to wrap my head around Pinot Noir. On the other hand I thnk there are a bunch of producers in CA who are finding excellent sites and trying to make the best wines from those sites, perhaps with inspiration from Burgundy but not trying to duplicate it. those wines are very interesting too so I continue to buy some CA Pinot and Chardonnay.
On the Chardonnay side the Liquid Farm example illustrates the point about which Burgundies you are comparing to. If you compare to Pierre Yves Colin Morey Rully or St. Aubin 1ers, it will be a pure taste competition - great wines, top producers, same prices. If you compare to PYCM Puligny/Chassagne/Meursault, you are in a different price range.
I guess I side on thinking that Mr. Dusseau is stating the obvious. Anyone who thinks that France does not offer better value than CA has not explored all that France has to offer, is a Domestic-Homer, or both.
Some things to keep in mind in terms of reality and human behavior;
1)Like many European countries, Frances grants farm subsidies to much of the vineyard areas.
2)As of 2012, France put out over 4,000,000 liters of wine whereas the entire US put out less than 2,800,000.
3)As to the human behavior aspect of things-I can’t count how many wine-geeks I have met or known who just for whatever reason feel more in their comfort zone with domestic wine. At times it’s because they have met the producer(s) and buy due to that relationship. We all know several members on this Board who seem to bask in the glow of hobknobbing with the industry and post constantly about their darling producer’s wines. Largely it’s due to the simple fact that there is a lot more information readily available to the American wine geek about domestic wineries and producers than there is about French wineries and producers, particularly in the “boutique”/small producer segment. It is no coincidence that, for example, certain Paso producers can fetch $80/bottle for a Rhone style wine when a comparable quality wine can be had for half the price from France.
4)The other big human behavior aspect, and one that’s been talked about many times; we Americans sure do love our FROOT. Give Us Fruit or Give Us Death. To paraphrase Steve Martin, “Waiter, take this bottle back and give me a fresh wine!”. The AFWE’s are in the drastic minority in this Country.
Just to note, I believe this is off by a factor of one thousand, that is … 4.1 billion liters of wine. (Probably so is the other one, I haven’t checked)
Mitch, I’m one of your fans here, but I strongly disagree with your smug dismissal of California value in general and the ability of California producers to produce quality low octane wines in particular.
AFWEs are staging a comeback in California. It is relatively recent, and it tends to be concentrated in low production wines not readily available at retail outside of the Pacific coast, but it is happening.
I am dumbfounded at the insistence of some that Burgundy produces high value Pinot Noir and Chardonnay. My luck at uncovering value in Burgindy is horrendous. But maybe I shouldn’t be surprised. I put much more effort in understanding the California marketplace than I do France.
Human behavior? There is a segment of consumers who are always going to fall back to tradition and prestige. This segment is owned by the French.
There exists excellent and poor value in all style ranges in both California and France. The spoils go to those who do their homework.
Sean, you do state that it is still early days for you as far as wine appreciation and purchasing goes. Early experiences can be very influential and perhaps the big ticket California wines that your parents enjoy have influenced you adversely as far as California wines go. I came to European and California wines pretty much at the same time and have been attracted to Rioja, Barolo, Bordeaux, and a passel of California producers (and back in the day the Left Coast wines were not all that expensive)
In response to your question though I do believe that you can get a similar quality at those price points. Avoid the trendy, unless it is still early in the game and prices have not yet increased. Many examples have been put forth and I agree with most. Kalin represents extraordinary quality IMO. Calera, Talley, Au Bon Climat, Scherrer, Dehlinger, Kutch, Ramey, Mount Eden, Ridge; I could compile quite a list.
And it’s no coincidence that, for example, certain Rhone producers can fetch $200/bottle for a Paso style wine when a comparable quality wine can be had for a third of the price from freaking Willow Creek.
Many regions in France are a treasure-trove for those in search of unique wines at great prices in a way that CA, with well-known exceptions, is not. But Burgundy is just not one of them. For my money, I’m finding better Pinot and Chard in a range of styles in CA than anywhere in the world. Not the case for most other varietals one could name, however. Perhaps Syrah.
My palate tends to be strongly AFWE and I’m buying more California wine now than at any point over the past 20 years because that is where I’m finding both value and interesting wines. The number of CA wines made in a style I enjoy has exploded, as have prices on a lot of the French wines I used to buy, and for many the style has changed as well to a riper more oak-prominent profile. For others, the producers have died, retired, or have lost US distribution.
Dear Mike; given that I have so few fans to begin with, which I believe you implicitly realize and implicitly remark upon here, loathe am I to reduce that number of fans by 50-100% by doing anything to piss you off. Consider me rebuked. But my dear Mike, let me beg you for a little indulgence; how can we call the AFWE movement (and bear in mind that those of us who identify ourselves as AFWE are simply taking the Obama administration on Obamacare handbook approach) and AFWE wines as “making a strong comeback” if as you say the wines are largely not available outside the Pacific Coast? That would be like saying vinyl records are making a strong comeback even though you have to find a good record store to buy them (thank goodness for Amazon and Amazon Prime). And also dear Mike, I am not one of the many who tout Burgundy as offering better value than domestic pinot publicly on this Board; though I often do think privately that both Burgundy and Oregon kick California’s ass at producing good affordable pinot. But first and foremost, please take no offense at my meaningless drivel. Since I don’t take myself seriously, neither should you my friend!
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