The philosophy of Audouze- what do you think? (and a promising new podcast)

WINE TALK
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Hi everyone,

I ran across a new podcast made by the company Invintory. I’d never heard of them. There are only 5 episodes; reviewed on the Apple podcast app only twice and the YouTube versions have very few views. They’re just getting started, so this might grow into a great new resource.

I’ve only watched the first episode on YouTube, and it’s with the one and only Francois Audouze; Ep.1: François Audouze, the Master of Old Wine | Chats from the Wine Cellar - YouTube I’m curious as to what you think. There’s lot of interesting stuff, though the discussion centers on rare ancient wines that most of us here will never taste.

His slo-ox Audouze method has been discussed ad nauseum, so no need to revive that old conversation. But I did want to discuss one of the main points he brought up during the interview.

He asserted that, assuming proper storage and a good cork, well made wines invariably get progressively better with age. He rejects the notion of a drinking windows or that wines will ever go into decline. He says flat out, “the older the wine the better”. He goes on to say that very old wines are not just intellectually more interesting, but more enjoyable to drink and “hedonistic” as well. He brings up many examples of supposedly amazing 100+ year old bottles as proof. I’ve had a few bottles in the 50-60 yo range. Some were good, some were entirely OTH. What would Audouze say? Improper storage? Faulty cork? Yak palate?

Do you think that all well made wine just gets better and better forever?

He also discusses his fancy wine dinners, which do sound pretty amazing. Has anyone here ever been to one? What are they like? What do they cost? (info hard to find on his website) For those who have been, are these ancient wines actually enjoyable? What are they like?

Thanks!
Noah

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No. Demonstrably no. Maybe if your cellar is kept at 40 degrees, and you have 100% success rate of perfect corks.

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That opinion is pretty well known about him. Most disagree.

As far as his wine dinners you can see pricing and availability on his website. He did post about one in the past year or so. I think that one was like $40k per seat.

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No. If Francois said that he prefers wines that are very old that’s one thing but to categorically say they are better is false. They change over time but better is in the palate of the beholder.

I know people that have drunk with Francois and thought many of the wines they had were dead.

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My guess is that almost no one other than François, maybe no one at all, agrees with this. He can have his opinion, though, and I enjoy reading his occasional posts on wines I will likely never even see, let alone try.

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Everyone tastes wine differently, our perception of tartness can be very different than the fellow next to us. I’ve wondered, perhaps there are those out there that perceive ‘old’ differently. I’ve often gotten a ‘mustiness’ which I describe as smelling ‘old library books’ on some very old nebbiolo, but others at the table don’t seem to perceive it or find it noteworthy at all. Maybe to others mustiness smells and tastes delicious to them. :person_shrugging:

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From my own perspective there can be a degree of tolerance to issues that come from very old wines, that are somewhat brushed to one side if the counterpoint is some haunting aromas / flavours that give a uniqueness that doesn’t exist in younger wines. That tolerance only goes so far though!

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and he eats and enjoys the wine sediment. And he sells seats to his dinners. Both of those facts should be taken into account when judging whether one agrees with him that all wines always improve . . . his palate and opinion are not necessarily gospel.

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:100: It’s like asking a realtor if now is a good time to buy a house.

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Its easier to sell tickets to wine dinners if you can show that all of the wines served in previous dinners were great. Anyone who has drank more than a few older wines knows they do not all get better or even survive. His notes seem to suggest the opposite.

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It’s interesting because I got the idea that he was extremely wealthy and that’s where he got all his unicorns over the years at much lower pricing. And his warehouse full of empties like Jeros of RC shows that he was drinking all this wine on his own for years and years.

So why would he need to sell tickets to these dinners? I thought he started doing the dinners for friends and just to share some great wine. But now it certainly feels more like a business. Causes one to think.

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Back in the EBob days a couple of board regulars attended his dinners on trips over there. The accounts were not all that positive. I do remember one noting that it seemed like not all attendees were paying the full cost.

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He was the CEO of a French steel company.

His cellar is reportedly 40,000 bottles.

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Also never a corked bottle - if corked, they are miraculously “fixed”. While I used to enjoy his notes in the past, I always took them with a huge grain of salt.

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I’m hesitant to jump on this as it becomes a bit too negative and I honestly thoroughly enjoy F.A’s Instagram posts and the stories of bottles he’s acquired. His warehouse of bottles, corks and capsules is clearly a work of passion (maybe obsession) and I think its great that someone has the wherewithal and desire to do it.
I only post this as it is fresh and sort of rubbed me the wrong way - The other day another prominent instagram wine account (Englishman’s Claret) posted about a really low fill oxidised old brdx which he then films being dumped down the sink - the guy drinks a lot of great old wines and clearly knows his stuff. Francois must feel the same as he follows his account. Francois replies to his post by admonishing him that he needs to leave the bottle untouched for a minimum 2 days and it will come back.
I have to say, I haven’t gone back, but kudos to the poster for biting his tongue and not getting into it. I’m not sure I would have been so accepting.

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I was informed of this discussion and it is very interesting because it shows how I am understood or not.
I accept of course every critic.
The podcast of Invintory is very long, I am too close to the camera, so it is not very top.
The story of the company which sells dinners is so. I realised that I had so many wines that I would never be able to drink them only with my friends.
So I created a company selling dinners in order to help my collection of wine to be used.
To give an idea I have drunk since 2000 a little more that 18000 wines.
And in my 274 dinners, I have shared 3000 wines. So the dinners are not by far the only way to drink wines.
And if people accept to pay to drink my wines, I feel free to do it. Who can complain ? In restaurant you ask for wine and you pay for it.

It is clear that I have a palate which appreciates old wines. I do not pretend that my taste is the absolute taste, but I see what happens, because in my dinners, everyone votes for his 5 best wines. It is not a technical vote, it is a vote of pleasure. Because there is no sense to say that a champagne is better than a liquorous or a white better than a red. It is a vote of pleasure. And up to now nobody rejected the experience, thinking that the old wines were dead.

And I have participated to great vertical tastings up to the 19th century. And what happens generally is that the best wines of the vertical are 1915 like for the tasting of 56 vintages of Clos de Tart or 1880 for a vertical tasting of a Pommard Epenots François Parent, and in the 20ies for Lynch Bages, Montrose of Pichon Comtesse.

Concerning my taste that is not the universal taste,
My best Haut-Brion is 1926
Mu best Lafite is 1844 followed by 1900
My best Yquem is 1861
My best Dom Pérignon is 1929
My best Montrachet is a 1865 Bouchard
My best Baby Jesus is a 1865
and my nest Chateau Chalon is a 1865 which makes me think that 1865 is a very important vintage in history, because Jean Hugel told me that his best Riesling is a 1865.
My best wine of DRC is Les Godichots 1929.

Everyone is entitled to think that it is not true, but to think that I pretend that these wines are great just to sell my dinners is childish, ridiculous and insulting.

I devoted the second part of my life in a love for old wines, and I would never imagine to lie on my impressions. As someone said I do not need these dinners for a living.

So everyone is allowed to think that he would not have the same taste as me, but not more.

It is true that I think that a 1928 Latour is ten times better than a 1988 for example. And everyone is allowed to think that I am wrong.

Drink well, enjoy what you drink. My paying dinners allowed be to become friend with many wine lovers. I increased the circle of persons with whom I share wines. And I am happy.

I wish Berserkers all the best.
Kind regards,

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Back on EBob, in one of his improbably pompous and often hilariously ridiculous write-ups, Audouze once wrote that a wine was “like the hand of Michelangelo’s David”. I had the audacity to point out the fact that Michelangelo’s David actually has two hands and they’re very different in terms of posture and expression, so which one did he mean? That was a mistake :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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After meeting Francois (in 2003 along with Rudy K and John K!) I learned first hand that old vin jaune is even worse than young vin jaune.

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There is a secret loophole that allows the Jura to bypass California warnings !!!

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I have had some 100-year-old wines that were transcendentally better than any younger (even fully mature) vintages of the same wines could have hoped for. I have also had some 100-year-old wines that tasted like old grey chewing gum peeled off a New York sidewalk.

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