The Official Deli Thread

[Ken_V]

@Neal.Mollen

@Bob Hughes

Neal, I seem to recall you getting up to Philly every once in a while (is it because you have a son in college here?).

At any rate, Hershel’s East Side Deli in the Reading Terminal Market blows 4th Street away. The menu is nowhere near as extensive, but if you want a great pastrami sandwich (on rye with mustard is the way I like it ), this is the place to go. They even have a few of those low stools at the lunch counter - I visit with a Jewish buddy of mine fairly regularly, and this pastrami is the real deal (or at least as real as it gets south of Carnegie Deli).

Thanks for the recommendation. Yes, my son goes to school in the Phil area (although he graduates in May!) so I will definitely check it out

You may have to send him to grad school.

[Jim_Friedman]

Zingermans is okay for pastrami and corned beef but is better for other things. In the Detroit area the best delis are stage deli, star deli and Steve’s deli.

[Roberto_Rogness]

John, I have never been to Framin’s, Izzy’s or Bagel and Nosh on Wilshire Blvd but drive by them twice a day. Worth a stop?

[Corey_N]

@Robert Pollard-Smith

I spent nine years of my yout’ working in delis in Chicago. By NY standards (which I discovered mid-career, to my dismay and delight), everything in Chicago was mediocre at best. Ashkenaz, Sam & Hy’s, Mort’s Home Catering, Mahzel Deli, Zayde’s, Belden Deli, Manny’s, The Bagel and most recently, Eleven City Diner… all meh. None of them ever cured a brisket or smoked their own pastrami. By the mid-70’s, pre-sliced, packaged ‘lox’ was the norm. It was rare to even find house roasted RB or turkey. Most used pre-made beef chopped liver— the horror! Chicken soup from powder, frozen matzo balls, the whole horrid schmear.

My fondest deli memories were as a child, at Ma & Pa Froikin’s hole in the wall on Devon Avenue— the corned beef was so aromatic, juicy and tender… (insert Catch-22 moan)

Haven’t hit the LA shops yet, nor Fumare in Chicago, but, for pastrami/smoked meat I rank’em Schwartz’s>Rascal House (gone)>Katz’s>Second Ave (original location)>Carnegie.

Fumare is pretty damned good Rob (Pastoral, which is right next to Fumare has a nice cheese selection btw).

Did you mean Rascal House in Miami? I used to go there as a kid. Always loved that place.

[Corey_N]

@Jim Friedman

Zingermans is okay for pastrami and corned beef but is better for other things. In the Detroit area the best delis are stage deli, star deli and Steve’s deli.

Do you know if Steve’s Deli opened a Chicago branch? We had a Steve’s Deli in Chicago that only lasted 2-3 years. It was the very definition of mediocrity.

[David_K_o_l_i_n]

They were the same, Corey. I think Zingerman’s gets it’s corned beef a pastrami from United Meats in Detroit, which I think is the best producer in the Midwest ( but is no substitute for hand curing and smoking in house). It would help if they used a steam table.

One thing Detroit does have (but is also losing) is the best rye bread in the country.

For those interested in the things, I recommend the book and website “Save the Deli” by David Sachs from Toronto

[Peter_Kleban]

Actually, I never had the corned beef or pastrami at Zingerman’s. Those kinds of things are just too much for my kishkas these days! But their other foods are really good. I have a colleague at UM who seems to go there at least twice a day (no kidding), so whenever I visit I see it often.

[Robert_Pollard-Smith]

@Corey N.

@Robert Pollard-Smith

I spent nine years of my yout’ working in delis in Chicago. By NY standards (which I discovered mid-career, to my dismay and delight), everything in Chicago was mediocre at best. Ashkenaz, Sam & Hy’s, Mort’s Home Catering, Mahzel Deli, Zayde’s, Belden Deli, Manny’s, The Bagel and most recently, Eleven City Diner… all meh. None of them ever cured a brisket or smoked their own pastrami. By the mid-70’s, pre-sliced, packaged ‘lox’ was the norm. It was rare to even find house roasted RB or turkey. Most used pre-made beef chopped liver— the horror! Chicken soup from powder, frozen matzo balls, the whole horrid schmear.

My fondest deli memories were as a child, at Ma & Pa Froikin’s hole in the wall on Devon Avenue— the corned beef was so aromatic, juicy and tender… (insert Catch-22 moan)

Haven’t hit the LA shops yet, nor Fumare in Chicago, but, for pastrami/smoked meat I rank’em Schwartz’s>Rascal House (gone)>Katz’s>Second Ave (original location)>Carnegie.

Fumare is pretty damned good Rob (Pastoral, which is right next to Fumare has a nice cheese selection btw).

Did you mean Rascal House in Miami? I used to go there as a kid. Always loved that place.

Yes, THE Rascal House… OMFG great place.

[Marc_Yamawaki]

Anything on good Dutch crunch!

[Michael_Sopher]

Well, in NY we do still have some good ones. I think Katz’s has the best pastrami, but to me it is a one trick pony (though the one trick does make for a full meal) There is chatter that the knobbleworst is good… but I don’t eat that. The knishes are nothing special even if they can be bothered to heat them up for you. Since the rest of what is there isn’t worth the trip to me, it isn’t a full on deli experience (the pastrami IS worth the trip (3 trains… 2/3 to 42nd, N/R to 34th and then the F) when I am in the mood… and it isn’t a weekend when the tourists pack the place). Second Ave Deli is more well rounded so that is my pick for anything but the pastrami. Pastrami Queen on Lex and 78th is a surprisingly strong contender as an overall deli. Liebman’s in the Bronx still has it all going on too.

I hear there are contenders in Queens and Brooklyn…

[Neal.Mollen]

Thanks Michael. Never heard of Pastrami Queen; I’ll check it out.

[Ken_V]

@Neal.Mollen

Thanks Michael. Never heard of Pastrami Queen; I’ll check it out.

Today?

[Peter_Kleban]

@Michael Sopher

Well, in NY we do still have some good ones. I think Katz’s has the best pastrami, but to me it is a one trick pony (though the one trick does make for a full meal) There is chatter that the knobbleworst is good… but I don’t eat that. The knishes are nothing special even if they can be bothered to heat them up for you. Since the rest of what is there isn’t worth the trip to me, it isn’t a full on deli experience. Second Ave Deli is more well rounded so that is my pick for anything but the pastrami. Pastrami Queen on Lex and 78th is a surprisingly strong contender as an overall deli. Liebman’s in the Bronx still has it all going on too.

I hear there are contenders in Queens and Brooklyn…

Just out of curiosity, how are Stage and Carnegie these days? (I looked on one of their websites and they guarantee “at least one pound” of meat per sandwich. Pardon me, but yuck! I can’t even eat that much for dinner! Yeah I know, I’m in the wrong thread )

[Neal.Mollen]

@Peter Kleban

@Michael Sopher

Well, in NY we do still have some good ones. I think Katz’s has the best pastrami, but to me it is a one trick pony (though the one trick does make for a full meal) There is chatter that the knobbleworst is good… but I don’t eat that. The knishes are nothing special even if they can be bothered to heat them up for you. Since the rest of what is there isn’t worth the trip to me, it isn’t a full on deli experience. Second Ave Deli is more well rounded so that is my pick for anything but the pastrami. Pastrami Queen on Lex and 78th is a surprisingly strong contender as an overall deli. Liebman’s in the Bronx still has it all going on too.

I hear there are contenders in Queens and Brooklyn…

Just out of curiosity, how are Stage and Carnegie these days? (I looked on one of their websites and they guarantee “at least one pound” of meat per sandwich. Pardon me, but yuck! I can’t even eat that much for dinner! Yeah I know, I’m in the wrong thread )

“Yuck?”

I have never seen anyone finish or even try to finish one of their sandwiches. Doggie bags are expected. You buy a lb + of cb or pastrami, eat what you want and carry the rest out. In fact, the sammies are so big you really can’t come close to fitting one in your mouth.

Stage is gone forever. Carnegie is the same as it ever was

[Michael_Sopher]

@Peter Kleban

Just out of curiosity, how are Stage and Carnegie these days? (I looked on one of their websites and they guarantee “at least one pound” of meat per sandwich. Pardon me, but yuck! I can’t even eat that much for dinner! Yeah I know, I’m in the wrong thread )

Rumor has it that Carnegie is good… but that midtown tourist thing is a huge negative to me. Even if the sammies are good the whole thing is sort of a caricature of a deli… would fit better in the NY NY hotel in Vegas. I don’t really have any intel on Stage… (though that says something… it just isn’t discussed as a “best” and not because it is under the radar like Pastrami Queen)

[Peter_Kleban]

@Neal.Mollen

@Peter Kleban

Just out of curiosity, how are Stage and Carnegie these days? (I looked on one of their websites and they guarantee “at least one pound” of meat per sandwich. Pardon me, but yuck! I can’t even eat that much for dinner! Yeah I know, I’m in the wrong thread )

“Yuck?”

I have never seen anyone finish or even try to finish one of their sandwiches. Doggie bags are expected. You buy a lb + of cb or pastrami, eat what you want and carry the rest out. In fact, the sammies are so big you really can’t come close to fitting one in your mouth.

Stage is gone forever. Carnegie is the same as it ever was

Sorry, I’m just old-fashioned. The idea of ordering something at a resto and knowing you will take most of it home is not very attractive.

[Neal.Mollen]

We all have our peculiarities

[David_K_o_l_i_n]

Got to get more than you’d expect for your money.

[Larry_Stein]

@M.Kaplan

Langer’s is the best of the bad lot that we have here. The rest (Canters, Factors, Art’s, Saul’s, Solley’s, Brent’s, Label’s - especially foul, as were all of the Jerry’s -, et al), suck terribly.

Barney Greengrass is in Beverly Hills and located at the top of… Barney’s of New York, of course. Enough said.

Come to LA to eat tacos, not deli.

What’s the overall take on Billy’s in Glendale? For one meal, the pastrami reuben (hold the Russian dressing, just mustard please) and the other, the smoked fish platter.

A late friend lived in Burbank so we’d go there before going to Dodgers Stadium. I used to come down once a year for a Giants/Dodgers series. Back then, it was safe to wear orange and black!

Although it’s not even close to being a deli, The Refuge in San Carlos makes their own pastrami. It’s amazing. The Refuge started out as a beer bar specializing in draft Belgian beers. The restaurant came after that. The beer is still there.

[johngonzales]

@Neal.Mollen

@johngonzales

Langer’s has not house-smoked their pastrami for 20 years. I don’t think Katz’s does either.

I don’t know about Langer’s, but I think that’s wrong as to Katz’s

http://katzsdelicatessen.com/What-Goes-Into-Pastrami

Nothing there says they make their pastrami in-house. I still say they don’t anymore, and while I’m too lazy to research, I’ve read it a number of places. They explain the “recipe” but, unless I missed something, saying “in-house” or the like is conspicuously absent, and as it is a selling point would be mentioned. I don’t know where they might have other space, but Katz’s isn’t even big enough to do all the pastrami and corned beef they sell on that premises. But as I said, personally, I do not find it an essential condition for the pastrami to be made in-house. The suppliers like RC use a custom cut and a custom formula for Langer’s, while they have the facility and equipment to keep uniform and able to be made in the volume needed and get it delivered quickly.

Btw, I have two cryo’d half pounds of Langer’s pastrami in the freezer, left over from the it’s annual appearance for the Super Bowl party. So spurred by this discussion I decided to break some out and have a pastrami sandwich for lunch yesterday. As soon as my wife saw me pull it out she friggin’ vetoed me saying she wanted to serve it for a lunch this coming weekend for some out-of-towners. WTF?! I always get chastized for buying too much pastrami for the gameday shinding. Now when I’m ready to make use of it, I get the bogart treatment.

Roberto my take is that Fromin’s is not worth stepping into. Bagel Nosh is basically only good for a bagel or other breakfast. Izzy’s was mediocre, but at least reasonable. Now they’ve cranked their prices up. I went a couple of times when my mom was admitted to UCLA/SaMo. They’re opened late, and now that Norm’s is gone there isn’t much coffee-shop style available in SaMo and most of the delis are east of 405. But Izzy’s basically is good for only a barely passable pastrami or rueben (and decent fries) or the slightly better matzo ball soup. I certainly wouldn’t drive 15 minutes to go there.