The New Cult Wines

[Ken_V]

@Bill Tex Landreth

@Josh Beck

@Bill Tex Landreth

Jeb, I’ll take my comments offline in regard to this matter.

A little late for that.

Explain.

I think you’ve got the splainin to do. You made the first cryptic comment.

[Marc_Frontario]

Grand Reve out of Washington are awesome

the '06 collaboration IV is the real deal

[dteng]

I got dizzy reading this confusing thread…

[Ian_Dorin]

If you want to talk about “next cult”, I think availability, or lack there of, is a key feature of the wine. For so long, Colgin, Screamer, Bryant, Harlan, et al, were almost never seen in retail, and mailing list was a LONG wait before you got an offer. So here is what I’m seeing as having a shot:

Galicia
Maybach
Paul Lato- Galloni scores will be QUITE strong on this one, or so I believe
Carlisle- I think this is going to make a final leap to stardom this year.
Booker
Bevan
O’Shaughnessy

Wines that I think have made it in the last few years.
Scarecrow
Saxum
Schrader
Kapcsandy
Continuum
Rhys- But I think you could argue the other camp I have above too.

Wines that MIGHT make it
Torrin
Epoch
Ovid
Seven Stones
Lewelling- Honestly, you could stick this anywhere.
Favia
Myriad

[Kevin_Harvey]

I think there is a good chance that the era of CA Cult Cabernet might have ended (to some extent) when Robert Parker retired from reviewing CA wine. While I am sure there will continue to be many limited production, high priced bottlings, I think this phenomenon required a more definitive and clear ranking than the messy and multi-opinioned world that follows in his wake. Many of the wines were more about winemaking style than vineyard quality and ranking winemaking styles is a highly subjective exercise. I am guessing that there won’t be as much clarity going forward and that was an essential ingredient to the genre.

[Jim_V_a_n_P_e_l_t]

@Ian Dorin

If you want to talk about “next cult”, I think availability, or lack there of, is a key feature of the wine. For so long, Colgin, Screamer, Bryant, Harlan, et al, were almost never seen in retail, and mailing list was a LONG wait before you got an offer. So here is what I’m seeing as having a shot:

Maybach

Wines that I think have made it in the last few years.

Scarecrow

.

Hi Ian. Was curious to know what differentiates Maybach from Continuum for you. I’ve typically viewed them in roughly the same light - both relatively new, similar RP track record, similar pricing. If anything, Continuum seems command less of a premium on the secondary market than Maybach. Being in the business, I’m sure you’re closer to it than I am.

Thanks,
Jim

[Berry_Crawford]

FAIL. This thread has it.

[Brian_R_Bachman]

@Kevin Harvey

I think there is a good chance that the era of CA Cult Cabernet might have ended (to some extent) when Robert Parker retired from reviewing CA wine. While I am sure there will continue to be many limited production, high priced bottlings, I think this phenomenon required a more definitive and clear ranking than the messy and multi-opinioned world that follows in his wake. Many of the wines were more about winemaking style than vineyard quality and ranking winemaking styles is a highly subjective exercise. I am guessing that there won’t be as much clarity going forward and that was an essential ingredient to the genre.

I think Kevin nailed it. IMHO, this is a very positive step for the wine industry in general. There is growing following (read winos) that have an increasing ability/confidence to like what they like. The lack of “cult” makes it OK to like what you like.

[Cris_Whetstone]

@Kevin Harvey

I think there is a good chance that the era of CA Cult Cabernet might have ended (to some extent) when Robert Parker retired from reviewing CA wine. While I am sure there will continue to be many limited production, high priced bottlings, I think this phenomenon required a more definitive and clear ranking than the messy and multi-opinioned world that follows in his wake. Many of the wines were more about winemaking style than vineyard quality and ranking winemaking styles is a highly subjective exercise. I am guessing that there won’t be as much clarity going forward and that was an essential ingredient to the genre.

While I agree with this by and large I believe the last time I saw the list Parker made of regions to reviewers, he still had California next to his name. The most likely reason for this to me(or maybe I’m just cynical) is to keep on with the “cult” type wines.

[JBierly]

@Kevin Harvey

I think there is a good chance that the era of CA Cult Cabernet might have ended (to some extent) when Robert Parker retired from reviewing CA wine. While I am sure there will continue to be many limited production, high priced bottlings, I think this phenomenon required a more definitive and clear ranking than the messy and multi-opinioned world that follows in his wake. Many of the wines were more about winemaking style than vineyard quality and ranking winemaking styles is a highly subjective exercise. I am guessing that there won’t be as much clarity going forward and that was an essential ingredient to the genre.

Parker moves markets completely. One has to think there will be a bit of a void in his absence.

[JBierly]

@JBierly

@Kevin Harvey

I think there is a good chance that the era of CA Cult Cabernet might have ended (to some extent) when Robert Parker retired from reviewing CA wine. While I am sure there will continue to be many limited production, high priced bottlings, I think this phenomenon required a more definitive and clear ranking than the messy and multi-opinioned world that follows in his wake. Many of the wines were more about winemaking style than vineyard quality and ranking winemaking styles is a highly subjective exercise. I am guessing that there won’t be as much clarity going forward and that was an essential ingredient to the genre.

Parker moves markets completely. One has to think there will be a bit of a void in his absence. It will be interesting to see if the WA moniker is enough to support the hype.

[Richard_T_r_i_m_p_i]

@JBierly

Parker moves markets completely. One has to think there will be a bit of a void in his absence.

I wonder about the absence. Will he pull back completely and leave it all to AG? Or can he resist the power of king-making? Just a few words (and a point or 2) added to an Antonio review could do it.

RT

[Humberto_Dorta]

Parker was the driving force behind cali cults but he didn’t create cults in general. They exist in burgundy and italy without his help. There will be a shuffle and the number might decline but there will always be cults whether because several critics say so or oprah says so or god forbid the wine is that good to a critical mass of people there will always be feeding frenzies.

[Ian_Dorin]

@Jim Van Pelt

@Ian Dorin

If you want to talk about “next cult”, I think availability, or lack there of, is a key feature of the wine. For so long, Colgin, Screamer, Bryant, Harlan, et al, were almost never seen in retail, and mailing list was a LONG wait before you got an offer. So here is what I’m seeing as having a shot:

Maybach

Wines that I think have made it in the last few years.

Scarecrow

.

Hi Ian. Was curious to know what differentiates Maybach from Continuum for you. I’ve typically viewed them in roughly the same light - both relatively new, similar RP track record, similar pricing. If anything, Continuum seems command less of a premium on the secondary market than Maybach. Being in the business, I’m sure you’re closer to it than I am.

Thanks,
Jim

Terrific question, and I don’t necessarily think that 100% profit the day after release is a pre-recquiste like Saxum or SQN, but based on consumer demand, and how rapidly we blow through our allocation (rated or not, and I get a VERY healthy amount of wine).
I’ll also throw in the fact that I get to taste so much of these wines, and really truly feel that this is the real deal, super serious wine. It’s a wine I expect Galloni to give high marks to.

[Nathan_V]

@Kevin Harvey

I think there is a good chance that the era of CA Cult Cabernet might have ended (to some extent) when Robert Parker retired from reviewing CA wine. While I am sure there will continue to be many limited production, high priced bottlings, I think this phenomenon required a more definitive and clear ranking than the messy and multi-opinioned world that follows in his wake. Many of the wines were more about winemaking style than vineyard quality and ranking winemaking styles is a highly subjective exercise. I am guessing that there won’t be as much clarity going forward and that was an essential ingredient to the genre.

I agree.

We won’t see anything like it again. It was the result of the credit bubble anyway.

[Seo_S_a_l_i_m_i]

@Ian Dorin

@Jim Van Pelt

@Ian Dorin

If you want to talk about “next cult”, I think availability, or lack there of, is a key feature of the wine. For so long, Colgin, Screamer, Bryant, Harlan, et al, were almost never seen in retail, and mailing list was a LONG wait before you got an offer. So here is what I’m seeing as having a shot:

Maybach

Wines that I think have made it in the last few years.

Scarecrow

.

Hi Ian. Was curious to know what differentiates Maybach from Continuum for you. I’ve typically viewed them in roughly the same light - both relatively new, similar RP track record, similar pricing. If anything, Continuum seems command less of a premium on the secondary market than Maybach. Being in the business, I’m sure you’re closer to it than I am.

Thanks,
Jim

Terrific question, and I don’t necessarily think that 100% profit the day after release is a pre-recquiste like Saxum or SQN, but based on consumer demand, and how rapidly we blow through our allocation (rated or not, and I get a VERY healthy amount of wine).
I’ll also throw in the fact that I get to taste so much of these wines, and really truly feel that this is the real deal, super serious wine. It’s a wine I expect Galloni to give high marks to.

Funny you put Maybach and Continuum in the buckets you did. My two cents is that its vice versa, though not by a meaningful measure. I can get Continuum at a discount at retail, while Maybach sells at a premium at auction. Agree that both are well made (and relatively well priced) wines, but the secondary market is my measure of “cult” status, whatever that means.

Agree with Humberto that Futo has no chance and is already on the slide. Priced itself out.

[Claude_Kolm]

@Humberto Dorta

Parker was the driving force behind cali cults but he didn’t create cults in general. They exist in burgundy and italy without his help. There will be a shuffle and the number might decline but there will always be cults whether because several critics say so or oprah says so or god forbid the wine is that good to a critical mass of people there will always be feeding frenzies.

Oh, he may have created the current crop of cults, but there wereCA cult wines (in the sense of being very hard to obtain and actively sought after by people who closely followed CA wines) in the 1970s before he came upon the scene. Most of those wines are names that still exist and are relatively easy to obtain today (and don’t necessarily resemble what was being produced in the 1970s). E.g., Chalone, Heitz Martha’s, Stony Hill, Trefethen, etc.

[Seo_S_a_l_i_m_i]

It will be interesting to see how Bedrock sells through this week. If it gets the response I suspect it will, it will have a chance of moving in the steps of Carlisle, though a long road.

[Humberto_Dorta]

@Claude Kolm

@Humberto Dorta

Parker was the driving force behind cali cults but he didn’t create cults in general. They exist in burgundy and italy without his help. There will be a shuffle and the number might decline but there will always be cults whether because several critics say so or oprah says so or god forbid the wine is that good to a critical mass of people there will always be feeding frenzies.

Oh, he may have created the current crop of cults, but there wereCA cult wines (in the sense of being very hard to obtain and actively sought after by people who closely followed CA wines) in the 1970s before he came upon the scene. Most of those wines are names that still exist and are relatively easy to obtain today (and don’t necessarily resemble what was being produced in the 1970s). E.g., Chalone, Heitz Martha’s, Stony Hill, Trefethen, etc.

I knew that but not well enough to use it as evidence since I was born in 73

[Claude_Kolm]

@Humberto Dorta

since I was born in 73

Great Cabernet year – better than the more famous 1974, IMO.