You’ve never had a wine that tasted better the next day?
What’s leftover wine?
+1
And Barolo, and Northern Rhone, and Burgundy…
And I remember a mature white Burgundy at a dinner at your place, Jay, in Jersey City maybe 10 years ago that got more spectacular the longer it was out.
There’s typically a burst of glorious aromas immediately after the cork is pulled (when there isn’t something stinky to blow off), which can be wonderful. There’s no denying that. But in many cases there’s another layer of pleasure and more secondary elements that come later with more air.
Stan – I’m curious what your tastes run to. I find that it’s high-acid wines like the ones I must mentioned that benefit most from extended breathing, though I have no idea why that would be.
To me, just another example of the fact that science cannot explain everything about wine. And personally, I love this!
In almost every case, younger wine that I have opened certainly do change over time, but not necessarily in a predictable manner. Can we truly explain what is happening scientifically?
To me, it’s impossible. Each and every bottle is unique wine and will act independently of every other single bottle. Everyone that is opened will experience factors unique to that single bottle.
We know, for instance, that most aromatic compounds are combinations of individual compounds that are bound together in amounts that are in parts per billion. We know that when wine experiences oxygen, either via passive oxidation or via swirling, some of these bonds are broken and new ones are created. But it would be very difficult to duplicate this swirling again and again.
On top of that, we know that everyone has a unique set of tolerances for picking things up both aromatically and flavor wise in wines. Therefore, the matrix of things that make wine wine, make each bottle truly unique.
Cheers.
I don’t think the author would argue that a wine being open for 2 or 3 days is the same as a freshly opened bottle.
I can tell you I do not agree 100% with their conclusion. While the majority of wines produced will not change with air, that is not relevant as the majority of wines are meant to be drunk within the first 6 months of bottling.
Based on personal experience opening and tasting thousands of bottles, as well as having performed decanting experiments in blind tastings, decanting helps many fine wines show better. An easier way to look at this is, if a wine can improve in the glass, decanting will also allow a wine to show better.
In this tasting, the esteemed judges were asked to assess the quality of several red wines from France’s classic Bordeaux region (including 1961 Mouton-Rothschild, a 1982 Clerc-Milon, a 1980 d’Armailhac, and a 1990 Mouton-Cadet) that were
Uncorked a few minutes ahead of time, and then poured and tasted
Uncorked a few hours ahead of time, and then poured and tasted
Uncorked and poured into a decanter a few minutes ahead of time, before poured into glasses and tasted
Uncorked and poured into a decanter a few hours ahead of time, before poured into glasses and tasted
Uncorked, and then immediately poured into glasses and tasted (that is, no “breathing” at all).
For which wines, across the board, did these wine judges ultimately show the most preference? You guessed it:
Except for the 61 Mouton Rothschild, the other wines are absolute crap. They are not relevant. Who cares?
FWIW, if decanting does not allow wines to show better, (Because you used Bordeaux as an example) when time permits, why does just about every chateau in Bordeaux decant their wines before serving at the property?
1 Like
My sister-in-law did that! I brought over a Carlisle Old Vine Zin RRV 2013, and she poured about 2 glasses worth into a blender. She ran the blender for about five seconds and funnelled the wine back into the bottle.
It did appear to help “open up” the wine.
That’s a fundamental question to this discussion. If you aren’t willing to answer, you have no credibility.
1 Like
Well, Wes…yes…I’ve absolutely have had wines that tasted better the next day after standing open on the sideboard. I think we all have.
I’ve also had old wines that are absolutely shot the next day…ones that have turned an ugly/murky brown and have become
very astringent & dried out. I’ve also had old wines that are much better the next day and the tannins have mellowed out. With old wines,
it’s pretty much of a crap shoot.
I’ve also had young wines that have lost a lot of their fruit and have turned very hard/angular & tannic overnight. I’ve also had young
wines that had so much youthful fruit that I can find no change in them overnight…or even after 2-4 days. And I’ve also had young wines that
have gotten noticeably better overnight. Usually, those are ones that have had a bit of a funky or reduced character. With young wines,
it’s pretty much of a crap shoot as well.
The real problem is predictability. It’s pretty much of a crap shoot if the wine will get better overnight or not and I don’t think I can PnP a
wine and accurately predict that it’ll be better the next morning…when I’m usually trying these wines w/ my bowl of FrostedFlakes.
So…let’s settle this once & for all for all those thousands of folks following the two of us on the InterNet. When our HookerCreek Zin '14
arrives this week…let’s you & I do the experiment. Leave the btl open out on the counter overnight and we’ll try it the next morning and see what happens.
What do you predict…will it get better or worse or have no discernible change??? I expect the last one…but I’m only guessing.
You with me on this one, Wes??? Not giving you a hard time…just ![[stirthepothal.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/f/f40faec63ca1018898a40805efbf9f0066a3d205.gif "[stirthepothal.gif]"){kind=small}
a bit.
Tom
Tom, you should try Cranberry Almond Crunch with Burgundy - it’s a great pairing. ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
Now you’re overplaying your hand. First, these aren’t “studies” – certainly not in the sense of having scientific rigor or designed to prove that “the rest is the brain playing tricks/psychological agendas.” See, e.g., Jeff Leve’s comments.
Second, it’s interesting that you make an argument from authority. What began as a post that seemed like it was just something interesting to discuss now seems like an axe to grind. So fine. You’ve got your opinion and your experience. I guarantee you’re not the most experienced wine drinker in this thread.
You’re a new poster. Happy to have you here. I’ve enjoyed the thread. But you might consider avoiding definitive statements that everyone else suffers from delusions.
That’s my experience.
There are a lot of apologists in the Breathing Religion. I prefer to remain an agnostic rather than fight for something that may, or may not, be there. Sometimes Parker was right in his simplemindedness: “It what’s in the glass that matters” to paraphrase him.
WHBT
I’ve been drinking high end wines for 40 years, been to tastings around the world and have hosted tastings as well. I believe it. 5 minutes in the glass(if that) is all the ‘breathing’ any wine needs. The rest is the brain playing tricks/psychological agendas. Read the studies.[/quote]
What’s leftover wine?[/quote]
I think Stan’s question is pretty fundamental, as I also don’t really understand this term “leftover wine” either.
Otherwise, this is one of those discussions that makes me wonder if some of us are from different planets. It seems like a no brainer that most all of us have opened a bottle of 15 year old fine burg, Bordeaux, Barolo, northern rhone and slowly worked thru a couple of glasses of closed down, shy wine not showing much, to find that the final glass of a bottle 3 hours later has finally opened up and is a revelation. those that tell me that wine is just as good five minutes after opening I think are from pluto, or maybe Uranus, or perhaps the center of the sun and are going eat their way out from our insides when we’re not looking…
I’m… I don’t know what I am. I generally side on “science”, but as others have pointed out, there really hasn’t been a lot of rigorous research on this subject. But I absolutely believe those who have more experience than I do that indicate Barolo benefits from air - often for substantial periods. Same for those who’ve indicated that certain whites that have sat in a fridge for 2-3 days have improved, sometimes massively.
I’ve noticed little difference when I have decanted. With one exception. A while back I popped a '98 Mayacamas. It had these really bizarre aromas of tart cherries and Parmesan cheese. I thought for a minute that maybe I’d mistakenly purchased a Pinot (knowing that Mayacamas doesn’t make a Pinot…). No tannins. It was just weird.
I set the bottle aside, and checked in on it periodically. Ultimately the Parmesan notes blew off, the fruit got darker, and some gentle tannins finally showed up. But ya know what? That took a helluva lot longer than 5 minutes…It took a couple of hours and was still improving when we finished it.
As Larry says, there’s so much about this thing of ours that science can’t explain.
knowing that Mayacamas doesn’t make a Pinot
cough, cough.
I was making a joke. Didn’t think I had to add the 
Fair point. It’s just that the common wisdom/definitive statements made here(and I’ve been reading here for years, just started posting) is that wines - especially young, red ones - need to breathe long periods of time. That’s simply not true and I wanted to present the case against it. Simple as that.
FWIW, Americas Test Kitchen decanted wine into a pitcher, then back-and-forth into another pitcher, about a dozen times or so, they said it made a big difference and the wine bloomed quickly owing to this. I’m sure they did not do this with something rare and aged, but it sounds interesting.
I’ve been enjoying wine 40+ years, and many bottles simply improve with breathing time, depending on the wine, and you must keep on top of the situation. Champagne almost always benefits from breathing in my experience. And I have enjoyed many bottles of the bubbly.
Now, about restaurants… From what I have heard, some actually pour the wine into a blender, and blend for an amount of time. Now I do not believe they are doing that widely, or with rare and aged wines, but…
YMMV