The Mother of the Litter

WINE TALK
21

Bob. Agree with you that the relationship is sacrosanct. That’s also beside the point and simplistic.

  1. No one is arguing that outside forces should have had a say in the decision to use IVF, but the doctor/patient relationship does not mean that the doctor is the patient’s slave and must unthinkingly follow her instructions. Her doctor could simply have said “I_'m not comfortable or willing to implant eight embryos, especially when you have 6 kids. My ethics guide me to use IVF for couples who are unable to conceive without it, not to increase your chances of having one more little girl._” That is, of course, their decision to make, but as her doctor they certainly would have been within their rights to refuse something like this.

  2. Your argument that society should have zero say in the decision is absolutely correct in my opinion… unless society is paying for the procedure or the support of her kids. If she (or her insurance) paid for the procedure and she can support the kids, fine. It can be done - I went to school with a guy who was one of 13 kids (Catholic, yes). His dad worked hard, ran a car repair shop, opened a few other shops and they scraped by 100% on their own. So it CAN be done and doesn’t require government aid. The issue becomes more complex if she relies on government aid to make ends meet on a long term basis. If someone wants the power to make private decisions without societal interference, cool… but then deal with the consequences of those decisions too. It’s hypocritical to say “Stay out of my business!” and the cry “Things went wrong! Help me!!”

Regardless I hope she does well and the kids all turn out great. As with most of these stories, we’re unlikely to hear one way or the other though.

22

23

Bruce:
I can clarify what I said. Certainly, the doctor patient relationship is sacred. But, I agree that does not mean that the doctor should do whatever the patient asks them to. Just that they should have the right to make an informed decision togethor, without government interference. So the last thing I want to do is tell this woman she cannot have asmany kids as she wishes. That is way too Jerry Falwell for me. OTOH, I seriously quesiton the doctors judgement, assuming there are not further details we do not know about. But that is separate from my argument concerning the doctor patient relaitonship.

Personally, there are other issues about this that offend the hell out of me. Elaine and I are friends with a lesbian couple. They have been trying to get pregnant for years. In Texas, they weren’t able to get fertility treatments because they were single. Here in Pittsburgh they were nto eligable because they were gay. Only heterosexuals are eligable. They finally got someone to help them, and they are pregnant, and I am very happy for them. So, I stand by my original statement. But that doesn’t mean that there are not a lot of wacky doctors out there either.

24

Darn, I was just about to ask you for some good prescriptions! :frowning:

25

Hell yeah. I want me one of those four-hour erections!

Call the doctor? NFW!

26

Then we can call you “Four Hour Woodie”!

27

“Four Hour Woodie” . . . very funny.

I want to send props out to Todd for founding this board where this kind of discussion can take place, to the Maoderators for leaving it alone, and to the participants for proving that a sensitive, politically-tinged topic can be the subject of a spirited debate and remain civil.

28

Awwww shoot, and here I was about to get all Bermuda Triangle on this discussion’s ass. [diablo.gif]

29

Her mother told a reporter that all her daughter wants to do is have babies. The woman has to be a little whacked . No job, no husband, living with her parents, what a life !

30

Then this is all you need…

31

The woman clearly needs psychological help. But what is really disturbing to me is the comment she made to the nanny when the nanny asked her how she can afford to support the kids AND go to school and she said, “I’m getting paid for it.” I’m guessing she’s not referring to a school loan …

32

Mary is right. You have to undergo psyche testing before a gastric bypass. How did she not before IVF with 6 rug-rats at the house already? IMHO, someone dropped the ball here!

33

Bob,

First you have to find willing partner…

34

[highfive.gif]

35

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2009/02/06/2009-02-06_in_first_interview_octuplet_mom_nadya_su.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In 1999, she was injured in a riot while pregnant and did not work much after that, but collected more than $165,000 in disability from 2002 to 2008.

36

Perfect! Looks like she used some of that for collagen in her lips, too

37

At the risk of being horribly non PC, I will refrain from making comments. [whistle2.gif]

38

I think she’s listed twice in the encyclopedia, under Excess Baggage and Train Wreck.

39

Sounds great…until the welfare train comes around. [foilhat.gif]

40

I am definitely in the wrong business!