Went through quite a bunch of the recommended wineries and indeed possible to order from a few of them in Europe!
From Scholtes, Bollig and Quint - what wines would you suggest to not miss out on (by winery)?
Btw, quite some incredible prices (trust the three of you (you, Robert and Russell on) them being very good).
No. Succinctly would imply your sentence was both shorter and correct. Alan said it correctly, you didn’t.
This, on the other hand, is entirely correct.
No, it’s still a rate. Inflation, as a term, means the process in which certain prices increase and it is measured as a rate with beginning and end points. “Inflation since 2001 (to this day)” is just the rate of inflation over the last 14 years instead of the normal annual rate, but it is still a rate all the same. If inflation was 100% over that period of time, the prices would’ve doubled. But in that context it just doesn’t make sense to say that “inflation is double”.
However, this sentence is correct. You said it yourself: instead of saying “inflation would have doubled since March 2016”, you said “inflation would cause today’s prices to be doubled”. If you measure inflation, you are measuring rate. Doubled prices does not equate to doubled inflation. That was my point.
From Scholtes (there a couple different Scholtes in Mosel but the one is located in Detzem is the one I did recommend) Pölischer Held trocken, Königsberg kabi & Detzemer Maximiner Klosterlay GG. I also like more basic wines from them but these three are in own league and in ”premium wine” lineup with different labels. From Bollig everything from Ohligsberg has been good stuff but urgestein is also very good crowd pleaser. I also like Lukas pinots, especially Kreuz is superb in it’s price range. I have not tasted 2023 vintage from Quint but Ohligsberg & Grosser Hergott stuff has been always on point and it seems that they still have '21 & '22s for sale and those are really good.
Thanks Johan!
Alan said more succinctly would be the key phrase here. If I had said but more succinctly it would imply what you inferred.
Oh, sorry, my bad. The beautiful ambiguity of English language.
Unsure why the argument, but inflation is a type of force. All forces can be measured, such as wind.
“ Wind” is not the same as “wind speed”. Inflation is sometimes shorthand for inflation rate, or it could be just the type of force under discussion.
From the Oxford Dictionary
“ ECONOMICS
a general increase in prices and fall in the purchasing value of money.
“policies aimed at controlling inflation””
If you are merely trying to correct Andrew’s grammar :
A) clear from context
B) why bother?
Certainly hope word usage isn’t the cause of German wine producers difficulty.
Thank you Johan! Amazing list!
I bought a lot of Auslese all through my wine buying years. Now buying very little wine overall, but still making room for a couple of cases of Auslese every year. It used to be more like 4-10 cases per year depending on the vintage.
At the risk of rising ire or misunderstanding I am a decided Prädikatswein kind of guy. I like beating a dead horse as much as the next guy (maybe more, you naughty minx). Today I am really hard pressed to buy anything above QbA or Kabinett due to price (same applies to Austrian wines). As just mentioned, I do not see residual sugar as a sign of demonic malevolence.
Part of why I don’t look at German wine sections at a retail store is that I really like Auslese and it is deflating to see how high the prices are versus what I want to/can afford to pay.
FWIW, I paid $82.99 for 2001 JJ Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Auslese Goldkap AP #22 in March 2003. So, it’s not like prestige bottlings were cheap then. But this particular bottling is an edge case. I have absolutely no clue what the correlate current vintage bottlings goes for.
2001 Gunderloch Nackenheimer Rothenberg Auslese AP #7 was $31.99.
2001 Fritz Haag Brauneberger Juffer-Sonnenuhr Auslese AP #6 was $44.99.
2001 Bollig-Lehnert Piesporter Goldtröpfchen Auslese*** AP #1 was $17.99.
2001 Kerpen Wehlener Sonnenuhr Auslese AP #11 was $22.99.
2001 Max Ferd. Richter Veldenzer Elisenberg Auslese AP #26 was $33.99.
2001 JJ Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Auslese AP #19 was $26.99.
2001 Merkelbach Erdener Treppchen Auslese AP #10 was $15.99.
2001 von Schubert Maximin Grünhaüser Herrenberg Auslese was $32.99.
I could go on.
I am sure 1970 Lafite was $21.99. Whatever.
The idea of me getting a current release Auslesen Riesling exists solely because it was on my Amazon wish list. I feel sorry for German producers trying to sell 2001 correlate wines today. But circumstances beyond their control determine their fate. I really don’t know what else to say. It’s sad. Just like the decimation of bee populations. The price of gas. The existence of the spotted laternfly. You sit there and watch prices rise. But self preservation stays the hand of engagement.
What wines are you buying these days instead?
Dabble around, no real “trend”. Portuguese, South African, Spanish. If I liked Garnacha more there seems to be a sea of affordable Spanish Garnacha. Basically, there’s the price I want to pay and then I look for the best candidate at or below that (ehh, sometimes above, sue me). Can still get a good bit of Loire Cabernet Franc at reasonable prices. Beaujolais with the exception of the handful which now command high prices. Italy right now is sort of the QPR king if one is not attached to a certain region or grape variety. My wife likes Nebbiolo so I buy a fair amount of Langhe level wines. Wish she liked Dolcetto and Barbera more. I’d buy more assorted Italian whites but the wife is more or less red wine or Sancerre (which I only buy for her, trying to turn her towards Touraine level SB). She does like Cava in the summer.
After Italy it’s France. Other Loire wines. Cheaper Syrah from like Collines Rhodaniennes or the Languedoc. Or just about anything from the Languedoc. Just not Grenache heavy. Some Savoie. Cahors. Maybe Provence or Jura. Should buy more Bordeaux as basement is relatively high. Don’t know why not. Almost never Burgundy nor Alsace (love the latter but…).
I’d like to try more Argentinean and Chilean wine but the shelves seem full of basic “sameness” wines. Once in awhile I get an inexpensive Austrian red. They usually turn out “competent”.
Not much from California and I decided to drop off my last winery direct list. So those will peter out over time. Not much interest in Washington or Oregon, entry level stuff again “competent” but rarely compels a second purchase. I wish Greek wine was cheaper as they look very interesting. I spend a good amount of time scrutinizing Australian selections but rarely pull the trigger (if I do more likely a white). Never look at New Zealand wines (wife hates NZ SB, and if I do look, the reds don’t appear worth the experiment).
Outside of a healthy dose of Cabernet Franc, Gamay and Nebbiolo it’s pretty random. Take a chance on something that might have personality.
That’s a wide and healthy diversity!
Shame you’re not in Europe (check out the website shop of the wineries I asked Johan about), the width and diversity of high quality German wines is impressive, and in general the value is arguably better than other countries/regions.
I like Robert’s recs btw and I think it’s hard to find wines from other regions with much better qpr, except Tiberio’s wines (not a region of course).
Tiberio pricing creeping up here in the US. Not at the “pass” level but the trend line is not favorable (for the savvy buyer). Pecorino always the most expensive.
@Marc_Hanes Inflation is a real thing, your $40 or so for 2001 wines is worth about $70 today. There are tons of current release Ausleses available in the US below that price. Maybe not JJ Prüm GKs or Willi Schaefer, but plenty of other really nice Rieslings. If anything, prices of German wines have gone up much slower than inflation. Here’s a wine shop with a lot of choices. All hope is not lost!
I bought 2 cases of the 01 GKA a few years ago at $150. Current release GKA is under $100. Very little movement in 20+ years.
I’m not a big spender myself (occasionally a minor splurge here and there), these wines are a terrific deal, even more so in US relatively. Given the prices in Europe they should probably cost 40-ish In US?
The good news is that there still are cheaper very drinkable wines out there and even at a slightly lower “quality” and might not be wines to age it, that doesn’t have to affect the drinkability. Two summers ago I drank a small guesthouse own produced wines, dirt cheap, and at that moment it was all I could want, wouldn’t have changed it for a fancy wine. Incredible drinkability and freshness. Fit my mood 100%.
I actually don’t think this is a very hard problem to solve—for quality wines in Germany. Obviously, if something is not good, there’s really nothing that can be done.
But there are a few major issues. Firstly, too much wine stays in Germany and goes to retailers, and the U.S. market does not get enough. I am easily the single largest buyer of German Riesling in the U.S. I can say that quite comfortably and am happy to share values. I would actually assume that my spending is higher than most German wine importers in the U.S., so I have a unique point of view.
It’s silly that importers here don’t have enough stock—they should be able to slightly satiate the market. But quickly, and I probably know this better than anyone, the delta between being charged 2x ex-cellar from most German wine importers and what German retailers charge (and who often have way too much of the wine and need to offload it) is ridiculous. This is also true for the U.K. and other markets in Europe. One fix would be German producers moving more wine outside of Germany. Again, I’m speaking about mid-tier and top-tier producers. Nun is Nun, and it’s probably fine.
The second issue is what I just pointed out—charging 2x ex-cellar (or more, in many cases) is silly and provides very little value to the end consumer, where a couple of bucks can make a huge difference for restaurants. I will also say that logistics out of Germany are also absolutely brutal - either very expensive, not a referrer or inconsistent. It’s very expensive to move smaller qty of wine. If you had a small producer and that was the only wine that was ready, let’s say 1 pallet of wine - that might at $4 to get in to NY or CA just in shipping, which is pretty rough.
The other issue—and I will certainly get yelled at or something for this—but German producers need to get out of the habit of using only German wine importers in the U.S. That doesn’t exist for any other country, with the exception of maybe Greece or South Africa. Diversification is key for the market. The problem is purely a commercial one, and it’s why most German-only wine importers don’t have a chance when it comes to taking large inventory. Restaurants can only have so many German listings. Sure, Anajak can get away with it, but they’re buying 2/3/6-bottle quantities (for the most part), and that doesn’t really move the needle.
Up-and-coming producers struggle because (again—I’ll get in trouble for this by someone), but the case with Vom Boden is that no one can compete with Keller / Haart / Lauer / Emrich. And for restaurants, those are the four(ish) you want. Obviously, there are exceptions. But you’re limited in how much you can actually buy—whereas if you worked with an importer who has a large, diverse portfolio, and they only have 2–3 producers in Germany, they can take a big position because buyers will be focused. And if they want Mugneret-Gibourg or Coche, they’ll put the Riesling by-the-glass. You’ll have restaurants stocking 100% of your offerings as opposed to 10–30%.
The goal of an import company is to have 100% representation—or as close to that number as possible—and that’s impossible with German-only import companies.
Italy is a bit different because 80% of restaurants on the Westside of LA are Italian, and often Italian restaurants only care about Italian wine. There are maybe two German restaurants I can think of in all of LA—and none of them even have a wine list.
I think a lot of these issues are surprisingly not that hard to solve. Yes, the argument for justification is, “Oh, I represent Keller, so a young grower wants to work with my importer.” But the same can be said about Roumier, Overnoy, Philine, whatever.
It is cool there there is focus, but it’s not actually best for the producers. Just my two cents.
I just got the prices for some Willi Schaefer’s 2024s from dealer whom pricing policy I know and from whom I have been buying for years and I don’t remember I have seen such a rise between single vintages before especially for Domprobst spätlese #5. I don’t know if this is because of small vintage or is this a part of the bigger picture but I really hope this is not the trend of 2024 vintage.
Btw. I just checked history of these offers and prices are almost doubled in three years (kabinetts → ) . Classic case of “Should have bought more” 
.
This is the first time I’ve ever heard of this kind of problem. I wonder if this is a US-only thing, since to me, Germany is by far the cheapest and most reliable country to deliver wine from. No country comes even close. If there’s a country where the logistics simply work and often at unbelievably affordable prices, it’s Germany.