That’s true.
Interesting those are not the German wineries I would have guessed as most of them have some presence in the U.S. I was more thinking of wineries with zero presence in the U.S. like Huber or wineries that sell a very small amount of their production here like Molitor or Van Volxem.
As for the latter I was only thinking about German wines
Last month, I took the train from Frankfurt to Trier via Koblenz and couldn’t help but notice all the abandoned vineyards along parts of the Middle Rhine and Lower Mosel.
Van Volxem (turning beer into wine!) is a special case, it is a large operation selling oceans of wine on all levels.
Apart from Keller, Julian Haart and now Wongamat, and select bottlings from Breuer, Huber, Wittmann and Buerklin Wolf, availability is not a problem, the wines are not difficult to find. On the run releases at least, there is no real market for older vintages.
You are losing me. You implied some German wineries do not need the U.S. market and some are going to be in trouble because they sell so much in the U.S. I would love examples of each from you so I can understand, just one of each. Wongamat is a bad example as they make a miniscule amount of wine.
Btw I just love to understand this stuff, no other reason for my questions.
I am not ITB and cannot give you any figures (and don’t really care). But I assume that availability in the US market highly correlates with the frequency of posts mentioning the estate on this board, and I listed some jarring omissions. The hypothesis is that those will be less affected by the tariffs, while some board‘s darlings will struggle …
An unrelated point is whether it’s wise for a winemaker, German or not, to put all eggs in one (export) basket.
That‘s it.
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What’s a fair price for a high-quality Kabinett for the average Joe? Is it 25 dollars?
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Not in the US. Most of the better producers are priced over $40-50 these days. Many are still under $20 in the EU/UK.
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Ok this helps a lot and now I understand. I am not really ITB but I think I have a good understanding of the German wine market in the U.S. The frequency of posts on this Board have a lot do with the importer who represents them and where wines are are sold. For example Wittman, Burklin-Wolf, Kuehling-Gillot, Christmann are great wines but they are unfortunately not sold where most wine geeks shop in the U.S.
If you look at the largest sellers of riesling in the U.S. Crush, Flatiron, Thatchers, etc. you will not really see these wines as represented as others (Julian Haart, Keller, Wasenhaus etc,) and this is partly because of the distributors they work with.
I just looked at Crush and Flatiron and they do have a few Rebholz, Wittman and Burklin-Wolf. Zero Kueuhling-Gillot and Christmann.
These wines are sold in the U.S. they just don’t have as strong a following with wineberserkers as others.
Keep in mind that most if not all the smaller new generation producers at least in Mosel has also a ”day job” in cellar / vineyards on larger producers payroll. Some even working in very large co-ops. You need quite large operation to pay all the bills when most of the wines you sell is priced between 10-30 eur…
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I know but also keep in mind you can buy land for 1/100th the price of Burgundy.
Does Molitor not sell a lot in the US?
It was more or less the only German wine available in Abu Dhabi. That and Dr L are beyond huge.
I do not believe they sell much as a % of their total sales.
Ah ok. But if they sell 1% that’s more than say Willi Schaefer.
$20 to $25 to me.
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AJ Adam is your friend!
Curious what other wines can you get in the $20-25 range?
Sadly Beaujolais has long past that zip code as just one example.
The point kinda is I can’t. I have all but entirely stopped buying German wine. There is a cap on what I can spend on any given bottle of wine. I splurge here or there. That means I go cheap here or there or forego. The budget has to be the budget for the rest of my family’s finances to work. This is not very flexible.
We have a group of prosperous friends here in New Jersey. Last night we had two couples over for dinner. Both as couples make more than my wife and do together. But they would raise an eyebrow over buying a bottle of wine for over $20 unless it was for a dinner party or the like. Not a Friday night at home watching a movie. They are the normal people. We had a couple of bottles of Pieropan Soave and they loved it. It was $16. So, why should I have bought a $35 Kabinett? Would it have been double the enjoyment?
Those of us old enough remember the 2001 German wine frenzy. The wines were great and so many were affordable. You couldn’t swing a dead cat without hitting a fantastic bottle of Riesling at an equally fantastic price. So, with absolutely no knowledge, what has changed in the underlying finances of the wineries that in 23-24 years prices have more or less doubled (some have, some haven’t)? My salary hasn’t doubled. Lots of people’s salaries haven’t doubled since then.
And, as noted in my previous post, if the underlying costs do demand a doubling in price then so be it. Hope there is a buyer as it can’t be me. But if the intent of the thread is correct, there aren’t many buyers. There is an imbalance between the shelf price and what people want to or can afford. Regardless or the price or service, such an imbalance usually creates dire circumstances for the provider. Macy’s, Red Robin, wineries, car dealerships, and on and on. In the real world people have financial limits. I drive a used 2019 Chevy Cruze I bought out of the Hertz fleet with 40,000 miles on it. Before that was a 2000 Pontiac Grand AM I drove until it literally stopped working (gave it to WFMU). Don’t drive a Benz nor Audi or name the car. Not complaining, I love my car. But I love more that it’s paid off than to still be making payments on a car that was twice the price or more.
I dunno, sometimes I feel like I am a lonely “voice of reason” here. Normal, average, rational people don’t buy wines more than $20 or $25 regardless of whether or not they can afford them. There’s no woe is me. This is just the world few Berserkers appear to dwell in. Or a lot of people are eating ramen noodles with their Fourrier with no heat on. People have to have a budget.
(I also buy a lot less Beaujolais in recent years or trade down from the crus because the price exceeds what I consider good QPR. This trend will no doubt deepen. Just to be clear, I am not extrapolating universally anything I say. To each their own, mean it.)
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Having grown up in a smaller city (although I have lived in the DC area now for 45 years), I think I have a different perspective. My view is that most importers of better wines (including but not limited to German wines) don’t try that hard to sell wines in the US outside the major cities and markets. I think there are opportunities in smaller cities, but this will take a lot of work.
A crisis also can be an opportunity. Falkenstein is still a pretty small winery as are most other top German wine producers (with a few exceptions). If good parcels are in crisis, then a number of good parcels are going to come up for sale. Is Falkenstein looking at this crisis as an opportunity to buy good vineyards at a lower price than would have been available a few years ago?
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I hear you but I feel like if you go up to $35 the range of German wines you can get is pretty amazing and that is before your discount 
A quick look on wine-searcher reveals The AJ Adam Hofberg is $22. I see Stein Blauschiefer for $22 on wine-searcher. That is an incredible wine made from 60 year old steep vines. Not sure what other regions in the world can offer that much QPR.
But overall I hear you…times are tough!
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You make a good point about the smaller markets.
Over the last several years, the Webers at Falkenstein have acquired some prime parcels. While the goal is to reduce the size of their total holdings, they won’t pass up an opportunity to lease or buy a vineyard in a top site. But there are only a few sites with which this holds true—all on the Saar and all in side valleys on the right bank.
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