The Green Meanies In 04 White Burgs?

[Kevin_Harvey]

If someone is looking for an example of '04 White Burg Green Meanies try '04 Bouchard Meursault Perrieres. This one is completely overwhelmed with the GMs.

[NickWittman]

In the last six months or so, have not picked up The Green Meanies to any significant degree in several 2004 Coche, Fevre, Raveneau and Domaine Leflaive. In some of them and others tasted, nuanced floral characteristics existed, but nothing I thought that took away from the wine. Generally still a fan of 2004 White Burgs, particularly the Grand Crus.

[David_McMahon]

My 2004 whites experience in quantity has been limited to Fevre premier and grand crus (Vaulorent, MdT, Montmain, Valmur and Les Clos) and Billaud Simon MdT. No greenies problems noticed at all. The Fevre Vaulorent has been nothing short of stunning. What I did have bad luck with was the 04 Valmur. The first two bottles out of a 1/2 case were definitely off, but more along the lines of early premox, with tropical notes. Definitely disturbing considering vintage and vineyard. Fortunately, the online retailer graciously gave me store credit at the value I requested.

FWIW, I have to say that matching up 04 with 05 Chablish, while enjoying both a great deal, my tastes definitely lean toward the slight additional fullness and roundness of the 05s that still have terrific fruit, nice cut and great minerality.

[CFu]

@NickWittman

In the last six months or so, have not picked up The Green Meanies to any significant degree in several 2004 Coche, Fevre, Raveneau and Domaine Leflaive. In some of them and others tasted, nuanced floral characteristics existed, but nothing I thought that took away from the wine. Generally still a fan of 2004 White Burgs, particularly the Grand Crus.

Nick, we are just oblivious

[Steven_Lawrence]

@Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow

Undoubtedly, this will invoke the same issue as the reds: some people find it, others are oblivious to it. So, like with the reds, if those who aren’t sensitive to the issue don’t find a problem in the whites…it won’t answer the basic question of whether or not they are affected.

So, those of us who are really sensitive to the stuff in the reds…will have to see about the whites…or listen carefully to those we know are sensitive to the stuff.

What a mindboggler…

I haven’t noticed this in the '04 Chablis (Fevre, Raveneau) I’ve tasted in the past year, but given my general fondness for the '04 reds, my observation would be utterly useless to those who are much more sensitive to it. I think Stuart is right about variable perceptions. This '04 GM phenomenon seems to be more dependent on the taster than TCA, VA, or brett.

[Jerry_Hey]

A 2004 F Jobard Meursault last night showed no green meanies to me and the few 04 Chablis from Fevre (les Clos, Preuses) that I have tried have been okay also. A 2004 Pierre Yves Colin Morey Meursault Perrieres last week was really great. And as highly as I regard Kevin Harvey’s notes, I just haven’t gotten any greeness from the Bouchard 04 Genevrieres either. I guess I must just be one of those it doesn’t affect. Unlike corked wines which I get right away…

[CFu]

@Jerry Hey

A 2004 F Jobard Meursault last night showed no green meanies to me and the few 04 Chablis from Fevre (les Clos, Preuses) that I have tried have been okay also. A 2004 Pierre Yves Colin Morey Meursault Perrieres last week was really great. And as highly as I regard Kevin Harvey’s notes, I just haven’t gotten any greeness from the Bouchard 04 Genevrieres either. I guess I must just be one of those it doesn’t affect. Unlike corked wines which I get right away…

I think I’ve gone through 7 btls of the 04 Bouchard Genevrieres and I’ve never had “green”. I feel I’m pretty sensitive to it in the reds.

[Jeremy_Holmes]

FWIW I am yet to notice the GM’s in 04 Fevre or Raveneau, I’ll check in on a few over the next few weeks.

[NickWittman]

@Charlie Fu

@NickWittman

In the last six months or so, have not picked up The Green Meanies to any significant degree in several 2004 Coche, Fevre, Raveneau and Domaine Leflaive. In some of them and others tasted, nuanced floral characteristics existed, but nothing I thought that took away from the wine. Generally still a fan of 2004 White Burgs, particularly the Grand Crus.

Nick, we are just oblivious

ha, could be to our advantage Charlie, will 2004 prices fall as the White Burg wine world crashes around us?

[Steven_Lawrence]

@NickWittman

@Charlie Fu

@NickWittman

In the last six months or so, have not picked up The Green Meanies to any significant degree in several 2004 Coche, Fevre, Raveneau and Domaine Leflaive. In some of them and others tasted, nuanced floral characteristics existed, but nothing I thought that took away from the wine. Generally still a fan of 2004 White Burgs, particularly the Grand Crus.

Nick, we are just oblivious

ha, could be to our advantage Charlie, will 2004 prices fall as the White Burg wine world crashes around us?

I’m actually hoping Stuart finds a lot of GMs in '04 Chablis so his considerable market influence will do to their prices what it did for '04 red burg prices!

[Stuart_BeauneHead_Niemtzow]

i’m not going to say anything till I’ve sold mine…if I find the bad stuff in them

[Pau1_M3nk3s]

A few pertinant questions about 2004:
What were the picking dates for Cotes de Beaune and Cote de Nuits Reds?
For Cote de Beaune Whites?
For Chablis?
Have any of the reds in the area near Chablis shown Green Meanies?

[Stuart_BeauneHead_Niemtzow]

Last night’s bottle of 2004 Dauvissat Chablis ‘La Forest’ was case in point. The aroma has notes of nettle, fennel seed and celery along with a big blast of salt water. It is pulpy and sappy in the mouth but slightly green and with a vintage derived leanness. It finishes with a torrent of minerals and a big squeeze of lemon juice.

Cheers
Jeremy

Jeremy,

How long did you aerate the Forest? I ask because I just opened one (though it kills me to do so at age 6 ). The immediate nose was of lemons and minerals and some honey. After an hour or so in decanter (I plan to leave it there all day to see what develops)…the overwhelming smell of pineapple strikes me big time (a very pleasant one at that), with the other stuff. The wine has so far brought a smile to myself and made me not regret that Dauvissat is the only producer I"m still buying; i pretty much stopped everything after the 2005 reds and 2006 whites…

I ask because I want to know if maybe it will come out more with the aeration…

I have a Carillon and a Sauzet that , after a half hour of digging out boxes…I grabbed. That’s about all I’m willing to sacrifice in the name of this thread…if that…unless I get the veggie/herbal stuff (I continue to think that “green” is inapt!)

I’m looking forward to dinner tonight…and very curious, too.

I’ll also have to add that on my last trip to the motherland, spring 2007, I found the veggie/herbal stuff abundant in the reds I tasted from '04, but never in any of the whites I tasted on that same trip…of course, I wasn’t expecting it in any color, as none of the critics/writers had really written about this specific flaw. But, after our first visit: chez Roumier…it hit me in the face, and when Christophe R. told me I wasn’t at all mispercieving…I began to get curious and concerned…and

[Kevin_Harvey]

Stuart,
Noticing the GMs in whites may fall under the “be careful what you ask for” category. While it is often more subtle in the whites, once you tune into the character, it is nearly as offputting.
FWIW, I can usually pick '04 whites in blind tastings by looking for this marker but as you noted above, sensitivity to this issue varies widely even among very experienced tasters.
To prove the issue, we once slipped an '04 into a 30 wine blind lineup. For two us that are sensitive, the wine stood out from the first sniff while a very experienced ITB taster could find nothing wrong even once the wine was unveiled. This particular person is much more sensitive to TCA than I am, so these sensitivities are biologically variable.

[k_s_h_i_n]

@Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow

Undoubtedly, this will invoke the same issue as the reds: some people find it, others are oblivious to it. So, like with the reds, if those who aren’t sensitive to the issue don’t find a problem in the whites…it won’t answer the basic question of whether or not they are affected.

So, those of us who are really sensitive to the stuff in the reds…will have to see about the whites…or listen carefully to those we know are sensitive to the stuff.

What a mindboggler…

Sturat,
I have been saying this about the 04s for awhile. I and others also have expressed my strong dislike for the 06 whites.

In regards to the statement in bold if one knows what to look for, it is clearly there. I made this statement in the past which made some folks upset but the truth is there are a lot people who think they have good palate but in reality they don’t. Having exceptional knowledge doesn’t mean that one is also blessed with the gifted palate.

I therefore wonder if a critic misses the 04s and the 06 whites, why still rely on the critic’s opinion? In all fairness, I realized that the 04s didn’t show any greenness in the barrel.

PS How will GM transform? Perhaps more minty note one day in white per Bernard Burtschy?

[Jim_V_a_n_P_e_l_t]

@Jeremy Holmes

It certainly is not just limited to Chablis, I’ve noticed this floral/herbal thing recently in Lafon’s Clos de la Barre, Meursaults from Pierre Morey, Roulot and Buisson Charles as well as Puligny from Sauzet. It seems to be more pronounced in the wines over the past 12-18 months.

+1 on the Sauzet. I noticed it, in varying degrees on 3 bottles of 2004 Etienne Sauzet Puligny-Montrachet 1er Cru Hameau de Blagny. Two bottles last May, one with faint green, the other much more pronounced. Did not pick it up on the Champ-Canet.

[Stuart_BeauneHead_Niemtzow]

can anyone/everyone describe this “green”? As i said, i don’t think “green” in the 2004 reds is apt…I think it’s vegetal/herbal…so…

[Steven_Lawrence]

@Kevin Shin

I have been saying this about the 04s for awhile. I and others also have expressed my strong dislike for the 06 whites.

Kevin,
Do you mean you get the GM component in '06 whites too, or you dislike them for other reasons? I personally am not fond of '06 Chablis (can’t speak for Cote d’Or whites) in general because of the sometimes tropical nature.

[Jeremy_Holmes]

Stuart,

I noticed it straight away in my most recent bottle, it is similar to the red trait in that is slightly vegetal, like nettles but also some herbal elements (think fennel seed and cumin). I could detect nothing but lemons and minerals in a bottle a few month’s prior.

Kevin is right about looking for the marker, we were served a bracket of whites blind last week and the only thing I could say with certainty was that wine number 5 was an 04. Most of our tasting group looked at me a little strangely but it was indeed the 2004 Lafon Meursault Clos de la Barre and Lafon is not known for making wines anything less than ripe.

Best Regards
Jeremy

[Steven_Lawrence]

Stuart, I’m curious to see if you notice GMs in your samples. Not, of course, that not finding them would discount the idea given potential for sampling error. But, if anybody should find them, it should be you!

Jeremy, I’ve noticed you mention GMs in some of your '04 red burg notes but can’t recall where you fall on the sensitivity/dislike spectrum. Are you on the overtly sensitive side for GMs in '04, like Stuart and Kevin? I would think that if the phenomenon is caused by the same process in both whites and reds (ladybugs???), that the same taster would be similarly sensitive for both.