Wow indeed. Now, someone is clearly fibbing. The acknowledged winemaker of THIS wine says Jon bought 500+ cases of it. It being the wine as Sam specifies. Jon says he bought something else with the label being a fugazzi - and by the way what is the big hub bub about (I love that part)?
I will send Jon’s post to Sam and ask for an explanation. Let’s see what he says. Weird.
I went back to the MW #23 email and am relieved to see this:
This is not going to be a Kinko’s label, it’s the exact same wine/label/bottle/cork, etc that you receive on the winery mailing list or at a top retailer.
I won’t be buying MWs in the future, but was happy to see that we shouldn’t have this problem with the one I did buy. We shall see how close Jon’s prose comes to the wine that gets delivered.
Yes. Only nuance is winemaker says he sold most of his wine to Jon with a label corresponding to Mystery Wine 22. Jon says Mystery Wine 22 is not this wine, regardless of label.
I think I have figured it out.
Jon bought 500 cases of this wine. He emptied the contents. He then refilled the bottles with another wine that corresponds to his description.
I forecast that mystery wine 24 will be the Dois Irmaos wine - now presented in yet another wines packaging (said content of that packaging becoming mystery wine 25).
It’s a whole new business model! 
+1 Anthony
and FWIW (from 14 Months Ago)… 
https://wineimport.discoursehosting.net/t/the-whole-mystery-wine-concept/22443/1
Loren’s idea, while sarcastic, is sadly the only logical explanation based on all of the available information. Sure, the MW series was in part about fun (it’s a guessing game, duh), but it’s also about buying and selling wine, and based on a lot of trust between the buyer and seller. That trust has been irrevocably damaged for me by this saga.
On the other hand, others have complained in this thread that they haven’t been pleased with their Garagiste purchases. I’m in another camp, in that I’ve actually been very pleased for the most part with my Garagiste purchases. Maybe I’m easy to satisfy (I don’t think so, though!). I’d say 4 out of 5 have been solid decisions to buy. But will I buy more from Garagiste, mystery wine or not? No. I’ll take delivery of what I’ve got coming, but after that, adios.
I have always been a Garagiste fan and loyal customer. I am very appreciative actually of the hard work Jon has done to introduce me to new wines and regions (drank a 2010 Ch Leoube last night that was nothing short of wonderful). I do think this Mystery Wine thing has done his brand some harm.
So, what happened to the 500 cases of the wine they did sell to Jon and was it sold with the label on? Jon claims the label wasn’t being used during that vintage and so he used it for the MW. Were the 500 cases sold without a label or under a different label?
From within the wine industry, is there any legal requirement that a label be accurate in any way other than EtOH? I suppose if a label is just a brand and doesn’t make any other claims, then everything is fair game?
Still glad I didn’t purchase, but it does worry me about the 23 which I did purchase. That should be the last MW for me as the thrill is gone with this whole saga. It would have been much better if he had just said it was going to be a Kinko’s label and you’ll have to trust his description, but it makes no sense to do what he is claiming - borrowing a label of a similar wine that wasn’t being used that vintage. That just adds to the deception and takes away from the fun. As someone else pointed out, what if someone puts this wine up for re-sale on Winebid for $15 (or whatever) and doesn’t disclose (or even know from this thread) that this wine is intentionally mislabeled?
Chris
As a long time Garagiste customer, this whole episode has left a bad taste in my mouth (pun intended). I won’t say I will never buy from them again but…
I hate to bug Sam Coelho over this matter, but perhaps someone else has already asked him what he thinks of this statement by Jon.
<<At the time of the #22 offer, the presentation of the wine was still undecided but it turned out to be a generic label. Please keep in mind, everyone is focusing on the label on the #22 bottle, but, like the Renegade labeled Mystery Wines, #22 may have nothing to do with the label or listed winery at all as that would be too easy to identify (Coelho did not use the Dois label in 2008 for commercial sale so it was available as a Mystery label>>
If the wine is indeed as described on the PDF he provided, I wonder what he thinks about Jon denying that the wine in the bottle matches the label?
If the wine is not what he bottled as Dois Irmaos, what does he think about his label being used to sell an entirely different wine?
If Coelho did not use the Dois Irmaos label for commercial sale, what is the wine they are selling for $40, as referenced in the PDF?
P Hickner
Sent this morning, along with the body of Jon’s response (not copied here):
"Sam -
The following is a note from Jon Rimmerman. It was publicly posted on the
Wine Berserkers forum. It is directly in conflict with the notes you have
sent to me - and candidly accuses you of misinformation not to say
misrepresentation. I highlight this quote:
“including #22 - the label etc is not
indicative of the contents of any of the Mystery Wines unless they are
in the ³perfect match² category, which #22 is not.”
I would appreciate a candid clarification as to exactly what wine I
purchased here and what wine I did NOT purchase. Thanks, Loren"
let’s see what, if anything, he says!
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Entertaining, ain’t it?
In a train wreck kind of way. OK, not a literal train wreck.
So let me get this right. You bought MYSTERY wine and now you want to know EXACTLY what you bought???
You and several others on this thread seem to be missing the definition of mystery. I get everyone’s issues… but if you want to know what a wine is, don’t buy a frigging mystery wine. I’ve zero idea if Jon’s copy is correct or not, but it seems nonsensical to complain about this as much as you folks have. Mystery wines are obviously wines that the winery can’t move for some reason. If you think you’re getting an $80 wine for $15 you’re incredibly naive. Sure, it’s fun to guess… but come on folks, you buy a relabeled wine that’s a mystery and a deal… and then you complain that the seller won’t tell you what it is. Doesn’t that strike you as, well, silly?
Rick, I think you’re missing the issue. It’s not about knowing exactly what we bought, but more how we were mislead to buy what we did. Indeed, none of this would be a problem if the the ultimate product as delivered did not contain a label from an existing winery. But it does. After the fact, we’re told that the wine in the bottle doesn’t match the label. The offer, however, referenced CT scores and scores from known reviewers, allowing us to piece all of this together. Something is rotten in Denmark.
Rick,
Some of the mystery wines are destined to remain a mystery even after purchase, and some come their regular label. I have purchased from each category and have never been under the illusion that I would get a Betz, DeLille, Leonetti, etc. in a Mystery bottle. I never complained if the wine delivered less than I imagined it would.
The issue here is that in buying these wines one has only the taste and reputation of Jon Rimmerman to go on, unless he brings in to play outside critical opinion. In this case Jon seems to have dishonestly attached the WA rating and Cellartracker notes of one wine, and delivered a different wine. It is not the identity of the wine that is the problem, it is the intentional deception.
P Hickner
This whole MW business is a little screwy.
Wine maker insists that they make $75 dollar wine, even though they can’t get $75 for it.
Wine seller insists that it’s $75 to $95 dollar wine, even though it’s yours for $29.99.
Under the best of circumstances this is a deception from the get go.
Oh I get that Mike… IN fact, in Jon’s shoes I’d use generic Mystery wine labels (though I don’t know if the TTB would be OK with that). I just find the entire thing a bit overblown for a $20 mystery wine. It’s not as if someone sold you $100 bottles implying it was really DRC or something. It’s $20 wine.
However, Loren’s not the only one who seems to want to know precisely what you bought and it simply strikes me as silly to want to know that when buying a ‘mystery’. Bottom line, you bought a $20 wine. Open one. Is it good for the price? Yes?? OK then. No? Hey, those are the breaks.
Again, I’m not defending the practice of saying something in the offer that’s flat out untrue and if Jon did that he shouldn’t have. I guess I’m reacting to what I see as an overblown reaction on the part of several people who need to turn the entitlement setting down a few notches.
Peter - Again, I get that. But you’re also accusing someone of fraud… publicly… over a $20 mystery wine. It’s not that it’s right to have done what you allege, it’s that the reaction seems overblown. But then I’ve never understood the Garagiste hype in general or the mystery wine phenomenon in particular. I’d far rather support a local shop and spend my everyday wine budget there than at Garagiste or another retailer that hypes stuff.
Not necessarily. I get that a winery might have been able to sell through X cases of a wine at $75 when the economy was good but cannot move as much of that wine now. It’s still aa $75 wine in the sense that it was priced at and selling at the price previously. For whatever reason wineries feel that to drop the price of a wine does long term damage to that brand (I’m not sure I agree, but I’m not ITB), so they sell it off under another label to get cash out of the bottles.
It is not necessarily that screwy, Brian.
A couple of the Mystery wines were from Nicolas Cole, a winery that was being folded up.
Others, like the Karl Lawrence and Pirouette are good wines that are often discounted, but not to a price as low as the Mystery wine offering. In that case, it helps the winery protect its regular distributors.
Some of the Mystery juice was probably over-run from regular production. Even top notch wineries have had too many grapes recently. I’d prefer to see the wine in a second label bottle, but I have to admit that to a limited extent Jon is right about the Mystery concept about having fun trying to analyze and identify a wine from taste alone.
P Hickner
Rick, I think the fraud issue validly is on the table because a lot of us do a lot of business with Jon; it’s not just about this one transaction. I’ve spent thousands on his wares, all based on a tenuous trust that he’s a fair-dealer. This is not fair dealing.