The best kind of information! 
What percentage of people buying Napa cabs would you guess have the ability to reliably call ABV within 1% among different styles? My guess is that it’s a small percentage of non-professionals, even among Berserkers.
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Had a very impressive retro Cab yesterday. The Madson '22 Massa Vyd. (formerly Durney Vyd, which are very old vines). Cole said he was trying to recreate the style of great Cabs from the '60s. Picked at 23.5 brix, very neutral oak. Very concenrated, vibrant, herbal, dark fruit. There’s a lone CT note, which i think does it justice (other than the 91 score, which seems like trying to calibrate to Laube instead of being self-confident. I’d guess Parker would rate this 95, since he was more about concentration/intensity than technical ripeness.)
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The WSET structure is a three-point system (low, medium, high) with corresponding percentage ranges (low is less than 11% I think; medium is 11-14, high is 14+; there are different ranges for fortified wines.) But, of course, you don’t know any of those percentages when you’re tasting blind.
It’s not intended to be precise, I don’t think. You may not be able to tell the difference between 15 and 16, but in either case, if you’re specifically looking for it I think you’re likely to feel some heat–even if it’s subtle–versus an 11 that can help inform your assessement of things like balance and body. I mean, how can you tell that high alcohol is well-integrated if you don’t have a way to tell it’s high in the first place?
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That may be the case. My comment relates back to Roy Piper’s that it is very difficult to know how much impact alcohol has when tasting. That there are other factors that may make the ABV seem higher or lower than it actually is.
I was trying to point out that even though WSET training can make it possible to more accurately detect the impact of alcohol vs. those other factors, most consumers aren’t WSET-trained and don’t possess those skills. And to hear Roy tell it, it can be difficult even for some of those ITB:
Awesome insight above, for sure. Thanks for all of the ongoing dialogue and input. FWIW, I have indeed tried Beta, Jasud, Mowe (and I am assuming I’m mis-remembering how the wine tasted), and even though I liked it “okay,” I sold any Di Costanzo I had. I never meant to indicate I think these winemakers and wineries are producing “bad” wine, it’s just made in a style I don’t like all that much. I am hoping that a lot of my favorite producers don’t start veering in that same direction, stylistically, because it seems to be a trendy direction many new California Cab producers are opting to follow. Someone above posted a list of “buzz words” that they’re seeing often associated with Cali Cab production, and I wholeheartedly agree…far more of those now than in the past.
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After tasting a bunch of Santa Cruz Mountains Cabs yesterday, they scratch my Cab itch without being over the top. All were very good and Bates Ranch was excellent across the board.
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DETAILS PLEASE!!!
As a Santa Cruz Mountain Cab fan for almost half a century, with Bates Ranch high on my list of the top sites, please let us know what you tasted and what you liked best.
Interesting. From the Jersey Shore (aka AVA Outer Coastal Plane). I didn’t even know there was such an appellation.
This tasting note from that store on the 2019 is odd – “pickled red grapefruit”???
Light garnet color. Aromas and flavors of cherry, freshly polished leather, cinnamon and clove, and pickled red grapefruit with a velvety, bright, dry medium body and a warming, charming, medium-length finish that shows notes of chocolate covered cherry cordials, leather, baking spice and clove, and smoked bacon with crunchy, chewy tannins and light oak flavor. An interesting and food friendly red to pair with an after dinner cigar.
FYI, I don’t think anyone considers Brotherhood to be in the top tier of New York wineries.
The wine was a 2010. Its from a winery (Tomasello) I drove past hundreds of times on my way to my families beach home when I lived back there but i never considered stopping there. The Custard Castle is a much more attractive stop on a hot Summer day. A friend picked it up randomly on an auction site. I laughed after we did the reveal
FWIW that area is prime for growing Jersey Tomatoes, White corn and cranberries
I’ve had some decent wines from Outer Coastal Plains AVA winery Amalthea. They make some Bordeaux blends that drink nicely.
Bates Ranch was poured by Santa Cruz Mountain Vineyard, possibly the 2018-we were told it is from the original block. My notes are kind of sketchy, there may have been others. My overall impression of the SCM Cabs was very favorable.
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I also had the pleasure of meeting fellow Berserker Eric Kummerehl, the tasting room manager at Vidovich Vineyards. Their Montebello Road and Lake Cabernets are very good and well priced.
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Hi there! Such a great day on Sunday. Nice to meet Chris W and Wes B as well. All berserkers are welcomed with open arms up at the tasting room!
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The Vidovich Cab was quite good. Kudos. I would definitely recommend any Berserkers who is adverse to Am Oak give Eric’s a try. Its Monte Bello mountain fruit made in French oak.
I struggle with Bate’s Ranch. I’ve yet to have a great wine from that place. Plenty of decent and ‘fine’ wines but never anything that turned my head. Given the style of most producers that get fruit from there I’d still pick one over a Napa in the vast majority of cases strictly on that basis.
On that subject, the quality level of the Cabs(and all wines really) at the SCM tasting was quite high on average. Much better than the vast majority of large regional tastings I’ve attended like that.
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Thanks! its been very fun to watch the style change and taste the difference. Actually quite relevant to this thread, if anyone in Nor-Cal wants to taste 15.5%+ abv cabs aged in 100% American oak vs. 14.5 in French oak from the same vineyard, our wines are a great example. Mention this thread and ill give you a side by side tasting.
I would say that 90% of our customers love both expressions, only 10% prefer one over the other. I think the public is open to a broad range of styles whether they know it or not.
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2023 was an exceptionally good year. Temps were even and mild all growing season.
Spottswoode’s Cab (I haven’t tasted it) might be physiologically ripe and balanced even without that burst of sugar the grapes get at harvest time. In this case I wouldn’t look at the alcohols at all and just realize that this was a graceful and balanced year. One of the best in recent memory.
In our tasting group we did a group of 2019 Cabernets, all heavy hitters and highly respected producers. It was the most difficult tasting I can remember as far as the wines were all over-oaked, tannic as hell, dark, closed, unyielding, and expensive. I understand why many consumers are looking for other choices given that showing. I was actually stunned at how out of balance and closed the wines were, expecting them to be showier based on reputation and recommendations from friends. As some one points out … follow your own palate and never apologize for what you like. You might try the wines from Benoit Touquette. … like Fait Main, and Teeter Totter (value wine).. they fit your description and IMO he’s one of the best winemakers in California by far.
I don’t think Harlan was around in the 1980’s.
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A couple points about Bates. There are distinct blocks that’ll give you very different expressions - quite a range in elevation, for one. Some producers specifically go for more red or black expressions. Some pick a single block and others make a blend.
There have been absolutely phenomenal Cabs from there, and there have been Cabs from mediocre winemakers that are just okay. But, the best spans a list of good producers over the years. SCMV, Ahlgren, Ridge, Ghostwriter, Kathryn Kennedy, Sandar & Hem, I. Brand and Origin off the top of my head.