In the UK there is a legal requirement to list menu prices for patrons to see before they enter, but the same law limits drinks to listing just 5. Hence there’s pressure to keep food prices low to avoid people looking at the menu and walking away.
Additionally, most people who run a restaurant, do it because they have a focus on / love of food. Only a small proportion have an interest in wine and very rarely to the same degree. Hence they’re often happy to see wine, water, coffee etc. help fund their primary interest.
Finally, there’s a habit to aim for a set markup. The effort to turn a savoy cabbage into something palatable, is a lot more than turning a Savoie wine into something similarly palatable. Such blanket markups in pricing, understates the skill and effort turning raw ingredients into an attractive plate of food, whilst overstating the effort in selecting a bottle from the rack, opening it, and pouring it into glasses.
The mere mention of the word corkage here causes much cardiac distress. Everyone has a strongly-held opinion.
I would hope that most restaurants would charge a corkage fee roughly equal to the profit they would make on an average bottle on their wine list. By doing that, the restaurant won’t care if you BYOB or not.
On a different subject, I get a kick out of waiters who claim that they are required by law to put your unfinished bottle of wine in a paper bag and staple the bag closed before you leave the restaurant with your bottle. Horse puckey. All the law requires is that you put your unfinished wine in your trunk, where neither you nor your passengers can reach it on your way home. It doesn’t need to be in a bag, much less in a stapled bag. Where do they get these ideas? If they are correct, all I need to do is carry some bags and a stapler in my car whenever I am drinking and driving!
I don’t know the state to which you are referring, but a sealed bag is indeed required by law in sevaral. For example, my fine home state says:
“The restaurant bar must securely reseal the bottle or bottles of wine and place them in one or more one-time-use, tamperproof, transparent bags and securely seal the bags.”
Mo.Rev.Stat. § 311.101.1(4)
According to Copilot AI, similar provisions are on the books in Alaska, Delaware, Louisiana, New Mexico, Tennessee, and Virginia.
So maybe that’s where they get these ideas, even if they mistakenly carry them into states where such is not the law.
There is only one reason to allow corkage. To attract customers.
The pros/cons run into the dozens but it could be a good differentiator for some.
For example, in NYC some places have free corkage on slower days, to attract customers. Usually there is a limit of bottles brought in per table both ion free corkage days and regular corkage days where corkage fees can range from zero to $200 per bottle.
Quite true, but in those states neither are the statements true that “it doesn’t need to be in a bag, much less in a stapled bag” or “all the law requires is that you put your unfinished wine in your trunk.”
I was going to delete the mention of it in the other thread this am but couldn’t find it. The thread doesn’t have an obvious title though like this one.
maybe we could have a group PM with local spots as we find them. I called Rosy the other night before we went and they said nope unfortunately. They only carry like 8 natural wines which I’ve tasted through…I had $5 beer.
I suspect that putting the bottle in the trunk solves all problems. I believe that most state statutes refer only to the passenger compartment.
We should be leery of relying on AI to tell us what the law is in various states. Just now, I looked at Delaware, one of the states cited above as requiring a sealed transparent bag, and AI told me that the driver cannot have an open container, but passengers can. I find that hard to believe, but that’s AI for you.
Here in Oregon, all that is required is that the open bottle be in the trunk. I looked up and read the real actual law.
So I have two questions:
What does your state require?
Have you read the actual law?
On the other hand, we were in a Brooklyn restaurant not too long ago where we purchased a bottle but they did not allow us to take the unfinished wine home. They claimed it was against NY law. We weren’t sure whether they misunderstood the law or wanted to resell the remaining wine by the glass. We poured out the remaining wine into or glasses before leaving.
Wisconsin has the strongest bar/liquor lobby in the United States. They were the last state to raise the drinking age to 21 and the last state to lower BAC for DWI from 0.1 to 0.08%. It’s illegal to purchase liquor from a liquor store after 9 pm, and children can drink in bars if with a parent or legal guardian. They ban corkage completely whether or not a restaurant has a liquor license.
Anyone not from there or having lived there has no idea how ingrained alcohol is in the culture. It’s a different world than any other state I’ve ever been to or visited.
In looking up the law, you generally want to look at the statutes relating to liquor licenses rather than just the open container laws (although the former may refer to the latter, as in Delaware). The law doesn’t apply to the diner, it applies to the restaurant. In other words, if you want to transport a half-full bottle of wine from your house to your friend’s house, expect the law to be quite different than if you want to take home a half-full bottle of wine you purchased at a restaurant, because the conditions of the restaurant’s liquor license may restrict the latter in ways that don’t apply to the former (as no liquor license is involved).
Historically, most/all states prohibited taking unfinished wine home from restaurants. This relates to the perceived competition and constant economic rivalry between businesses with “on premise” licenses (bars and restaurants) and those with “off premise” licenses (wine shops, liquor stores, and grocery stores). Neither wants “competition” from the other, so the lobbyists for each have historically fought anything that looks like a wine shop selling a glass of wine for consumption in-store or that looks like a bar or restaurant selling hooch “to go.”
Thus, fights were necessary to allow things like in-store tastings at wine shops and, as is being discussed here, wine “doggy bags” from restaurants. But during the rise of anti-drunk driving sentiment, many states amended their prior prohibition on taking any alcohol (opened or not) home from an “on premise” licensee (bar or restaurant), and adopted “wine doggy bag” laws to encourage diners to stay within their limit and not have to finish a bottle that might make them tipsy just to get their money’s worth for the bottle of wine. All of the weird restrictions included in “wine doggy bag” laws were designed to placate either the “off premise” lobby (for example, in Missouri the “wine doggy bag” law only applies if you ordered a meal, to prevent restaurants from just selling wine as if they were retailers) and/or to comply with open container laws (sealing the bottle, bagging the bottle, putting it in the trunk, etc.)
Of course many were then liberalized during the lockdowns of 2020 and many places now allow restaurants to sell wine and beer to go alongside take-out food.
And the advice to read the actual law and not rely on an AI summary is of course completely correct. Expect any AI summary to contain significant errors.
[quote=“Philip_N_Jones, post:30, topic:353447”]
So I have two questions:
What does your state require?
Have you read the actual law?
[/
NJ
Never read the law but my recollection is that it has to be in the trunk or the hatch compartment in an SUV.
Not sure about a pick up truck.
This was enacted about 20 years ago. Prior to that, you could not bring home an open container from a restaurant.
The citizens of New Jersey would then chug the rest of the bottle before leaving and do some impaired driving. Prudently the anti drunk driving contingent convinced the dimwits in the legislature to make the change and allow you to take the unfinished bottle home
I am no lawyer, but it looks to me that people can BYO with a closed bottle, but the restaurant cannot charge the customer extra for corkage. However they can charge whatever they like for an off menu item like a dessert macaroon.
NJ
Never read the law but my recollection is that it has to be in the trunk or the hatch compartment in an SUV.
Not sure about a pick up truck.
This was enacted about 20 years ago. Prior to that, you could not bring home an open container from a restaurant.
The citizens of New Jersey would then chug the rest of the bottle before leaving and do some impaired driving. Prudently the anti drunk driving contingent convinced the dimwits in the legislature to make the change and allow you to take the unfinished bottle home
[/quote]
I wonder what the rule is for ride shares. I rarely drive any more. I just keep opened wine in the backseat with me. And it’s not just coming back since I’ll usually open and maybe decant my wine before going to a restaurant.