Idk, 20 may be better in WB
1978? Phenomenal in California, Burgundy, Rhone and good to at least moderate in most regions.
FOR ME AND WHAT I DRINK, certainly I liked 1990s more than 2001s. This is not a criticism of 2001s but more that 1990s were just what I like in German wines OF THE TYPE THAT I DRINK.
I like 2019s a lot, but I need to see how they develop over time to make any judgments about where they fall. I have seen too many vintages like 2005 in Burgundy over my lifetime to make judgements yet on how great 2019s will be.
My sense Robert is that you drink many more different types of German wines than I do. I pretty much only drink Riesling (my Pinots and Chardonnays come from Burgundy not from Germany) and pretty much only drink Pradikat wines (I drink a lot of Spatlesen and Auslesen and very rarely do I drink a trocken wine). I tend toward mostly drinking wines from the MSR. Thus, it is highly unlikely that I am going to like the same vintages as someone who drinks a lot of trocken wines from the various regions in the Rhine.
And, I have a strong preference for vintages with higher acidity. I have the sense, for example, that I like 2010 as a vintage more than people who drink mostly trocken wines do. For the wines I like, the sweetness and the extract in 2010s buffer the acidity. [Being consistent, I like 2010 in Burgundy more than 2009 because the 2009s tend to be too soft for me.]
I am surprised that there is so much consensus on 2001 as shown in this thread. German wines are so diverse that I would think that there would be wider views depending on what types of wines people are drinking.
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So 2001 in the MSR pradikat wines was too low acid for you?
I donāt think people are choosing 2001 for the dry wines or the spatburgunders, which was all much less developed at the time. I think people like it for the glorious regal acids in the MSR pradikat wines.
Of course that doesnāt mean everyone needs to agree!
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I havenāt had (m)any 90s I donāt think, but most every 01 has been fabulous and the best 01s are the best Rieslings Iāve ever had. 01 Prum SpƤtlese Auction is wonderful, but tops has to be the 01 Prum WS GKA and itās only getting better. Iām hoping to look forward to seeing it evolve over the next 40 years.
I am really intrigued by this, as most reviewers seem to rate the vintage (1993 Burgundy) as (very) decent but this is the first time that I have seen anybody rate it as the best vintage ever. I was lucky enough to purchase an en primeur case of the 1993 Georges and Henri Jayer Ćchezeaux and they were easily the greatest wines that I have ever sampled. These are the only Jayer wines that I have ever sampled and I canāt compare them to the wines of other similar level producers from this or other vintages, as I donāt have access to the elevated circles, in which such wines might be available 
.
What was it about 1993 that made it so special for you? Thanks, in advance.
WOW!!! Where did that come from? All I have said is that I think 1971 and 1990 were better vintages for the wines I like than was 2001. At no point did I criticize 2001 or say that it was low in acid. I also did not criticize excellent vintages like 1975, 1976, 1983, 1985, etc., etc., etc., when I called 1971 and 1990 as my favorite vintages.
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Just curious what makes 2001 less attractive for the wines you drink? You cited high-acid wines and MSR pradikat wines as the types of wines you drink, which are the two strengths of 2001. So was curious about your thinking?
I have to ask how old you are? Are you capable of comparing 2001s to vintages like 1971 and 1990? I turned 18 in 1973 and for the first 10 years or so when I started drinking wine, the vast majority of the German wines I had were 1971s (in the earlier days selected by and opened for me by my father who owned a wine store). Those wines were fabulous and having had others over the years (although very few in recent years), the wines remained fabulous. Unlike any other vintage I have had.
I was working in DC by the early 1990s and was buying a lot of German wines from David Schildknecht when he was in retail in DC. Over the years, I have had a large number of German wines from 1990 starting from the time they were released.
You somehow think that I have to be criticizing 2001s when I say I found 1971s and 1990s better. How much experience have you had with wines from 1971 and 1990? When did you start drinking them. I really could ask you the same question. What is about 2001s that make you think they are better than 1971 - a really legendary vintage.
I mean, there are similar judgements being made in all of these posts about all the vintages named. I rated 1982 Bordeaux as the best. Should I have said 1945 or 1959 or 1961. While I have had a few 1959s and 1961s (including an unbelievably great 1959 Latour), I cannot rate those vintages as I have not had enough wines from them. From my experience, 1982 was the best. Frankly, for me, 1970 may be the second best, although 2016 may someday surpass it. Does not imply criticism of vintages like 1985, 1986, 1989, 1996 and 2005, all of which were and are great vintages. But, the 1982 IMHO were better.
old Germany: 1921 and 1959
Mosel 1975
Rheingau 1971
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1975 was a great vintage in the Mosel. Great call.
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Iām 48, started drinking German wine when 2001 was released, so obviously donāt have your historical experience. My few experiences with 1971 have been great. But Iām not capable of hashing out details.
I was more reacting to how you responded to Robert, when he asked about your views on 2001. You said your views were shaped by the fact that you donāt drink Spatburgunder or German chardonnay or dry riesling, because you focus on high-acid MSR. I would never dispute your love of 1971, but was curious about the thought process, because spatburgunder, chardonnay and dry wines arenāt the usual reasons for liking 2001.
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I donāt know how to answer your question any further. As I have said over and over to you, I ranked 1971 and 1990 better because I liked the wines I drink better. And, I mentioned dry wines, Spatburgunder, etc., because I have no idea how they tasted in 2001 or any other vintage. I left open the possibility that trocken wines in 2001 could be a reason for preferring 2001 because I have no idea how such wines compared between 1971 and 1990 and 2001. I addressed my comments to Robert specifically because (1) he asked for my thoughts and (2) I know that he has experience with older vintages. I mentioned acidity levels because a lot of people donāt rate 1990 as highly as I do because they donāt like the high acidity levels in the vintage. I found the acid (when combined with the rich fruit, etc.) very attractive, but then I also found some 1987s (a very high acid vintage) attractive (esp. from Donnhoff).
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I thought about '93 red Burg, some of my all time favorite wines, but decided to go with '99 as more consistent for me on lower end.
'91 N. Rhone is another good one (although maybe '78 as well, though Iāve had less)
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Thinking about this purely from the standpoint of vintages Iāve drunk enough of to make a reasonable judgment and also from wines/regions I like to drink ā¦ in particular order:
2000 Bordeaux
2001 Germany
2001 Sauternes (this deserves it on the basis of Yquem alone that year, IMO)
1996 Champagne
2010 and 2016 Piedmont and Tuscany
2005 and 2015 Sonoma Pinot Noir
Fun thread!
Ok, got it. Makes sense. When I see people boost 2001, itās usually because of the MSR pradikat wines, but who knows what turns the conversation can takeā¦
Iām a big fan of 2001 because of that regal acid structure and have never seen anything like that since. But I donāt have experience as far back as you.
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For a signal variety 1990 California Zinfandel. Virtually every producer made great wines.
For across the board California 1984. I have loved the Cali 1978ās and 1974ās that I have tasted but too few examplesā¦
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Theise isnāt a fan of 2005 anymore.
But to add to your list of vintages that provided a ton of pleasure without the hassles of waiting: 2004 in Germany. So many immediately delicious wines.
1982 Bordeaux
1991 Northern RhƓne
1964 Rioja
Fun idea for a thread Jeremy!
Bordeaux: 1990 (1982 is great and more famous in the wine drinker imagination, but I think 1990 is very slightly better based on head to head comparisons).
Giving old/young vintages for the rest, as I think these are different metrics (and I donāt drink young Bordeaux enough to consider in that context).
Red Burgundy: 1993/2010.
White Burgundy (excluding Chablis): 1989/2020. Remains to be seen how the 2020s will age, but theyāre certainly the best white wines Iāve had from barrel and when young from bottle. I am hoping they will drink like the 89s do now (or as well, if not the same way).
Champagne: 1988/2013, though everything Iāve had so far from 2019 may challenge that.