The average wine drinker...and why he fancies himself an expert?

WINE TALK
21

I was recently @ my offsite storage and a few other lockers were open so I could see what was in 'em. Loads of very pedestrian Napa Cabs & Chards, wines most here wouldn’t seek out, drink only in a pinch and never seriously store.

I bet folks would pass my open locker and see Bojo & Chinon, Ceritas & Rhys, Scholium & Schaefer and scratch their heads. To each his own sense of expertise, though obvious factual errors do need to be pointed out.

22

Glenn, my wish list for aged Cali reds would for sure include multiple cases of Louis Martini Barbera from the 60s…just amazing pedestrian wine.

23

Goodness I’d love some 1968, care to predict a modern equivalent Roberto?

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Guys are supposed to know about fine wine, cars, sex, carpentry. Sometimes we have to BS our way through these.

25

I like that. Can I know something about fine wine, a little about sex, how to start a car and nothing about carpentry?

26

I don’t think anyone in Cali is aging Barbera for YEARS in giant redwood tanks anymore…

27

I disagree with the premise. I find many people talk as experts who know nothing about a subject. I think it just appears that way with wine because it is a topic for which you are knowledgeable and passionate about.

This clip from Annie Hall demonstrates well this point: “Boy, if life were only like this.”

1 Like
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The “average” wine drinker is the drinker that actually makes the wine world go round…

29

love the Annie Hall clip! And I have suspected that I notice it more with wine because it’s one of the very few topics where I might be able to spot BS when it’s presented convincingly.

30

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” Works for all things, including wine.

This one works, too: “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.”

31

Kevin, while I am not (yet) a “good palate” denier (but am the next best thing, a wine critic denier), even the notion of “good palate” begins to seem overrated to me. For many who fancy that they have “good palates”, the palates of others are judged to be good when they are in substantial agreement with the beholder’s. That strikes me as the sort of subjective lack of any checks or balances that leads to all of the nearly worthless BSing passed off as wine criticism. I am not denying some concept of wine aptitude or facility, but I am not entirely certain what role “palate” really plays in that; I am not sure where the qualities of the physical equipment stop and the ego begins. I apparently encounter far fewer of the “Rioja grape” type, but I do drink often with those who claim to have absolutely no wine expertise. My lifelong experience there is that more of such folks have “good palates” than not. With no wine knowledge at all, a majority can readily distinguish between great, good and bad among wines that they have a taste for. Maybe they cannot make some judgments that you and I can. For instance, they are hard-pressed to understand the difference between a wine that has been opened too early and a flawed wine, given that neither gives much pleasure. That would be important to us, and many others on this board. We collect, and taste and drink a lot, and need the learning and context that we have acquired over the years. On the other hand, a bottle that is no fun to drink is not fun for anybody. You and I might add something to our databases, but we are not capable of any greater pleasure from such a wine than Joe Average…

32

A rice bowl is useful because of its emptinest within.

Tao said : is there any reason why one should fancy oneself as an expert ? [truce.gif]

33

Bill,
I am In agreement. I am bothered by those who laugh at Beringer white zinfandel or KJ vintner’s reserve Chardonnay drinkers as I think it is perfectly fine to enjoy whatever gives them pleasure, btw KJ Chardonnay is remarkably well made. I also have experienced that a lot of amateurs have a good palate.

The things that bothers me are so called exerts both pros and amateurs who pretend to give expert advises where I am very well aware they have no clue and those who insist their way or the highway.

34

I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that Randy Johnson probably thought strikeouts were the best thing in baseball, while Jason Elam maybe emphasized long kicks in his sport. I suspect the state department values diplomacy, and the military, the ability to effectively apply force. Teachers might tell you that education is a good use of taxes, and talk on and on about the children, while social workers might have a different area of passion.

In the world of wine appreciation, you value a good palate. Let me guess, are you are good at blind tasting?!?

It’s just one part of the game, buddy. And those of us condemned with average palates can achieve expertise in our own way; hopefully it’s not all BS. Perish the thought of us referring to ourselves as “experts” though.

35

I agree …specially about burgundy. [thumbs-up.gif]

36

I don’t do blind tasting often but when I do, I always do better than the top pros.

The crazy thing is that my opinion of those who have a gifted palate like Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡, Tom Maskell, Joe Howe and Tom Wheltle is based on casual wine dinners as I have rarely done blind tastings with them. Others like Herwig Janssen and Kelly Walker, my opinion is based on blind setting.

Having a good palate is a god’s gift and it is a necessity in evaluating wines. You can certainly y compensate a bit but there is a limit. I have seen the famous critics as well as the passionate wine lovers who simply can tell apart a red from a rose yet they want to lecture others and that is what bothers me.

37

Being good at blind tasting means only one thing…you are good at blind tasting. Congrats, bro!

38

I just smile when I hear a load from someone that doesn’t know what they are talking about. They will either get there one day or they won’t. It doesn’t bother me. I have tons left to learn so if I were to talk wine with an actual expert, I would probably sound like them to him/her. You see this everywhere. Someone who watches sports center for a half hour a night thinks they are an expert on sports. When it comes down to it, compared with the majority of the population, they are experts. A small amount of knowledge past the norm on any specific topic probably puts you ahead of the majority of the population. My conclusion therefore is that it is a matter of perspective. I am considered an expert by my group of friends on wine and beer, even though I constantly tell them that I know just a tad more than them because I geek out and read about those subjects a lot.

So when someone is talking about wine like they know everything, they probably come off very knowledgeable to random, non-wine drinkers. To someone who doesn’t know better, I could sound like an expert on just about anything with Wikipedia and a little confidence.

That is just my opinion though. I guess I am too easy going to get worked up about things.

39

I find that ironic since AFAIK the original vintage resulted from a stuck fermentation what was going to be trashed, until JJ brought in Jed Steele as a consultant, who suggested they bottle the juice with RS. It hit an unexpected target. I suppose once they realized the market, it became the production goal to halt ferment with RS. In that respect, they are not making as well as they intend.

40

Great clip! This is actually so universal to the human condition, we have a word for it:

soph·o·mor·ic
adjective \ˌsäf-ˈmȯr-ik, -ˈmär- also ˌsȯf- or ˌsä-fə- or ˌsȯ-fə-\

1: conceited and overconfident of knowledge but poorly informed and immature