Thank you! Danny Meyer to eliminate tipping

As the mother of a line cook, I sure like the idea that BoH may get better pay. My daughter has worked in several fine dining spots in Chicago and the going rate for line cooks remains @$12/13 per hour with some of the snazziest (think Next, etc) often paying under $10 from what I’ve heard and of course no benefits. Folks end up having to take hotel jobs just to get a marginally living wage and benefits. And cooks often put in considerable off the clock time out of sheer dedication (or craziness).

I’m actually a tipping fan - I just want it shared across the whole team.

“Board of Health”?

Back of House

I assume Back of House

Yes, back of house.

I bet they get benefits too (certainly that’s the case in Europe, in most if not all countries IIRC). Big difference from here.

And of course, not so long ago we had another NYC restaurant owner who tried to eliminate tipping

Bruce we eat out a lot and travel to wine country a lot. I bet I see issues with at least 5% of the meals. Some at very very high end restaurants. When it comes to poor service it would really be improper to be forced to tip 50, 75 or a 100 dollars for service which wasn’t worth a dime, what motivation would a water have to provide anything but mediocre service?

We might agree here. I like the current system.

I don’t like it. Who can know what type of signaling mechanism it is. Are you talking a range of 5-7% on the bill or of the tip? Tips certainly vary more than 5-7% so I assume you’re talking about as a percentage of the total. What’s the average high end of tip%? 18%? At 5-7% you’re talking about one third. Many people will react for a potential one third move in their income. Whatever it is, it’s something variable that has some motivational effect. One thing that can be sure is there is LESS motivation if the fee is not variable. As far as where the signal goes, waiter or mgmt., what is to preclude one form still giving the word to the mgmt. even when also lessening the gratuity. I do both at times. If I don’t feel like getting into it I’ll just let the tip speak, and if it doesn’t speak at least I feel that I’ve paid less compensation for the lesser service. There are times when I am with others, late whatever and don’t need to feel the need to spend my time tracking done and conversing with a mgr in a busy restaurant and if a lot of other people likewise choose to not spend the time for positive or negative feedback to mgmt., that method lacks effectiveness. I think that’s part of the point. Restaurants tend to be very busy without a lot of mgmnt eye-on. They can’t really recognize issues of interaction, timing etc. and there isn’t the time or will from either side to go through review of a good proportion of services. Most employers have an easier review of the employee’s work product than happens with servers. That method might well work at a fine, less busy establishment where a small number of managers can really keep track of their staff, but for most establishments I like the extra motivation factor. On some level there’s noise involving cheapskates etc. on lower tips but servers talk and understand about what others get on an average check and more importantly per shift. If their variation is large, they’ll get the hint. I actually like to vary my tips a decent amount. I will give someone 12% if they give me CRUMMY service with some aspect negatively affecting my experience. But then I also like to give the occasional really great server 22-23%.

There is another component of being able to tip that is a bit muddled. It changes the dynamic of bringing wine and buying wine. First, what does one tip? 20% of the corkage fee? That’s not really enough for the server. Also what about purchased wine. Honestly, when I buy a very expensive bottle on a list I just don’t tip 20%. I have no problem with 20%/$20 on a $100 bottle but feel differently about 20%/$50 for a $250 bottle. Lastly, and this one is controversial, I often get my corkages waived. Sometimes I don’t get a single one waived even on very high tabs including wine purchase. Yes, I realize that the server might be giving me potential revenue for the establishment. But they also may simply be acting as one who makes an allowable decision. With the fixed charge they’re incentivized to not waive anything thus increasing the tab. In the case where they might be reasonably waiving a corkage on my large tab, I am unable to extra tip them as I do now.

I don’t know about the cook’s salary. Server’s for the most part share with the cooks etc. It is not as though, absent mandatory pooling, the cooks end up with no share. But even if there is an issue with the back staff, it could be handled by a service charge or increase in cost to compensate them, while leaving the server’s portion variable. I don’t find it hard to calculate a tip and do the quick paperwork. So what really do I gain? I’d guess that in the end the diner will not only be making it easier to distribute the money to the back, but also paying more as a whole.

That lower scaleis also rising.

Tip sharing with back of house employees and managers is a violation of DOL regulations.

Yep - cook staff gets nada.Tip sharing only goes to front of house staff - host, bus,runners, etc.

I understand this to be part of the problem - the law bars sharing tips with the “back of house” folks - cooks, etc.

Restaurants have tried for many years to make it “right” and take from the waiters tips and give it to other employees. It was a wide spread practice until like 5-10 years ago when some Law Firms caught a wind of it a made a fortune in the lawsuits. Many top restaurants in the city were sued and had to pay big settlements.

So I guess it makes a sense that restaurants would wanna avoid this problems by eliminating the tips and making everyone salaried.

Restaurant owners in Manhattan have long had plenty to worry about, like soaring rents and exacting customers, but now they face a new and costly problem: a record number of lawsuits accusing them of stealing tips and cheating on wages.

Though battles between managers and workers have been a staple at many restaurants, these lawsuits involve some of the most popular restaurants in New York, including the Old Homestead, the Brooklyn Diner, Smith & Wollensky, Sparks Steak House, Heartland Brewery and Mr. Chow.

Waiters, bartenders and busboys say the number of suits has exploded because they have grown tired of what they describe as being shortchanged on wages and tips. But many restaurants say a different force is behind the lawsuits: greedy lawyers.

The legal showdown has rocked Manhattan’s restaurant establishment over the last year, as workers have picketed outside restaurants, armed with megaphones and even drums, angering owners and unnerving diners. Some restaurateurs have become so angry that they have sued their detractors for slander.

New York State’s labor commissioner, M. Patricia Smith, called the violations widespread and serious. “It’s clearly a big problem,” she said. “It’s reached a tipping point in the industry. When it becomes the standard practice to cut corners, then everybody starts doing it.”

Brandon Salus, a waiter, sued B. B. King Blues Club and Grill, on West 42nd Street, saying it had misappropriated his wages by docking his pay $240 after four of his customers sneaked out without paying their check.

Mark Fisher, a waiter and Off Broadway actor, joined a lawsuit against Fiorello’s, across from Lincoln Center, that claims that he and other workers were not paid overtime and were forced to share tips with managers, even though state law bars managers from taking any portion of workers’ tips.

Peter Fasanelli, a bartender at Heartland Brewery on West 43rd Street, has sued the chain, asserting that its managers cheated workers of wages by illegally erasing hours from their time records. The lawsuit also accuses Heartland of not paying employees for their first week of work and of ordering workers not to clock in during banquets.

“We would look at our paychecks at the end of the week, and we’d see that our hours are missing more and more,” said Mr. Fasanelli, 40, a self-described struggling actor. “We’d bring it to their attention, and their attitude was, ‘Just forget the whole thing and keep your mouth shut.’ ”

More than two dozen Manhattan restaurants have been sued in the past year, including several Chinese restaurants sued by their deliverymen. Restaurant owners have denied doing anything illegal, suggesting that some plaintiffs’ lawyers see their establishments as targets with deep pockets.

http://waiterpay.com/2011/05/servers-at-yankee-stadium-file-class-action-lawsuit-alleging-misappropriation-of-tips/

I love Danny Meyer for this. Tipping is one of the worst practices and one of the best ways to ruin a dining experience. The tip left by people has little to do with the service received, and as mentioned, if people are irritated by something at the restaurant, it may have little to do with the waiter. Food might be bad, neighboring tables might be obnoxious, the wait might be long, etc., while the waiter is the friendliest guy in the world. And that too gets obnoxious - the waiters who hover over you, implicitly urging you to finish fast are as bad as those who are never around when you want something. It’s not fair to the waiter and it’s not fair to the patron to expect that after every meal, the patron will register is assessment of the experience on the back of the waiter.

As far as what people make in restaurants - that’s not my problem. Sorry but we come across a lot of people every day and is it our responsibility to ask how much they’re making and if they’re satisfied and if not, to try to make it up with some kind of donation? The crossing guard, the bus driver, the security guard at the front desk, the secretary in the office, the co-worker next door who is helping you with some spreadsheet, the clerk at the deli or the grocery store where you buy your toothpaste and milk?

I’m just not going to sit in a restaurant, wanting to enjoy a meal, and worry about whether the waiter who could have studied engineering but instead decided to go into acting is living in the way he wants to. I’ve worked crap jobs and the fact that they were crappy made me want to do something else.

If Danny Meyer can pull this off, maybe the laws will change so that the waiters aren’t denied minimum wage.

Good links posted by folks, especially the eater one.

It still seems though that all in they are trying to push through a price increase that is more than just including the tip/service/hospitality for full service dining.

When they talk about adjusting for some past wrongs, I think what they really ought to be correcting is that differential between diner facing staff and the back of the house. And I think that’s a restaurant mgmt. problem, not a diner problem.

That differential IMO is driven by immigration status, English skills, and appearance/looks. Given that tipped staff made more money, of course workers would prefer those jobs, but if one could not work legally on the books, nor speak English, or was ugly / covered with MS13 tattoos then they didn’t have that option - they had to chop onions in the kitchen. There’s some competition for the higher paying tipped jobs, much less for the lower paying, sweaty/smelly boh roles.

We’ll see how this works. But I think the aspect where they are angling for an outright price increase beyond an adjustment for tips/taxes is going to be challenging. And Danny Meyers venues are some of my favorite in NYC, although I’ll confess the last time we were in town, we didn’t stop in to any of them.

Are you guys sure about that? I don’t think it is so here in Cali. It is not legal to REQUIRE the server to tip pool and share with the back. I THINK it is certainly legal for them to do so of their own volition. In that case, yes there is the dynamic that the server does not HAVE TO necessarily do it but I have a feeling the money certainly would filter down if it became the understood modus operandi. Then, subject to a bit of extra noise, the motivational dynamic remains. I have no problem with letting the server who witnesses the event, incentivize or penalize the person who also had some effect on my experience. Plus, as I said, why if you need a surcharge for back staff can’t you just do that and leave the server dynamic the same?

How much is the service charge increase? How much is the current average tip? Since people talk about cheapskates, and considering that many people tip at a lower rate for expensive wine, I would think that those circumstances lead me to believe that it is surely less than 20%, probably around 17%. So if the service charge is over 20% what is really happening is that the net customer totality is paying more than pre-change. In reality, if in part this is to account for the poor tippers, those of us that are not cheap and represent the upper share of the % curve would actually be responsible for a lesser share of the total. That’s not a bad plus, but at 20%+ that doesn’t really happen.

One thing that IS a factor in the discussion is that when the server get s a tip via credit card, without a mandatory pool, they are SUPPOSED to declare it as income. When they share a large chunk they obviously don’t make that money so in order to reduce their reported income they may have the burden of reporting where it went or even who it went to.

Here’s a long explanation from California Restaurant Association on the issue (it seems reasonably balanced guidance, not advocacy). Here’s the crux of the issue, from the article, although it appears this legal position is under some challenge and may not apply in California because of a court ruling.

The most recent issue that has arisen involves who can share in the tip pool and whether “back of the house” employees like dishwashers, chefs, and cooks. Under the Federal Labor Standards Act (“FLSA”), the Department of Labor (“DOL”) has consistently taken the position that employees who do not provide direct service to the customer are not allowed to participate in a tip pool. This would mean that kitchen staff who do not have direct service contact would not be viewed as being valid participant to share in a tip pooling arrangement.

http://www.calrest.org/employer-mandated-tip-pooling-guidelines.html

So you’re happy to have BoH make you a spectacular meal but they don’t deserve a living wage eh?

Not even going to touch the overworked stereotypes in your description of BoH folks.

It may be we just disagree on the value and consequences.

To clarify my point though, and you may not be a good illustration based on your practices (but you can play with the numbers and the point remains the same):

Let’s say a typical person tips +/-5 percentage points (e.g., 15-20% or 20-25%) at the low end for bad service and the high end for good service.
Let’s also say there are people who have different ranges (some are 10-15%, some are 15-20%, some are 20-25%).

For the signalling mechanism to have value (other than to you as a “I really sent him a message”) the waiter has to know that they’re getting 20% for good service or 20% for bad service. Otherwise it’s just random, and it doesn’t really tell them much. Perhaps they can establish a pattern, but they’d still need to know what the average is for the restaurant, and they’re falling below that. Sure, they can chat with buddies and maybe take the hint. But at that point, shouldn’t the manager step in?

To me, this justification for the value of tipping actually allows the restaurant manager to dodge its supervision responsibilities. As pointed, there are thousands of services provided every day - why do we only tip some? Is there no other way to evaluate waiters (e.g., observation, customer complaint)? We manage to do it with Wal-Mart employees, fire fighters, yard crews and so forth - why not for restaurants?