I know I sound a bit tough on some posts on this thread, but these guys are in the business and need to know what consumers do and what our thinking really is. It really doesn’t help them if we say sure go for $20, it is like drinking a couple of glasses in a wine bar when we know we would never taste in a winery we have never heard of for $20.
Lets see.
$15.00 x 2 (me and my wife) x 3 stops a day = $90. per day x 2 days = $180. Call me cheap.
Howard - I’m not disagreeing with you. It’s kind of why I addressed the pricing rationale above - asking how much is too much assumes one sees fees as a revenue source which is valid, but they can also be viewed as a marketing expense. IN that case, the question should be “Tasting room fees -should I charge at all?”
If I were ITB I’d shoot for tasting room revenue (fees plus sales) to give me the rough equivalent of what I would get for selling those bottles into the channel. The bottle sales have a much higher margin… against that you set the cost of running the tasting room. If the margin from sales minus room costs didn’t give you the same revenue you’d have gotten from selling those bottles (plus the poured ones) into the channel, figure out what fees are needed to bring things into line.
Before anyone charges more than $5-7 they need to ask if they’re really providing value to the visitor. While a couple can share a glass (which would partially address Dan’s math above), the single visitor cannot - so they’ll drive away people like that unless they are known to offer a special value. After all, $20 buys a lot of interesting wine.
Dan, would $10 refundable work for you? That would reduce the cost to $120 (for an estimated 60 pours (5 per winery, 6 wineries, 2 people)).
So if the wine stinks, you are out $2/pour. But most likely you will like a good portion, walk away with a few bottles/cases and reduce the cost from $120 to maybe close to $0.
Of course it varies depending on venue, but I personally look for a model similar to that. I feel it is pretty fair.
Eric - let me invert that. If you’re so confident that the wine’s good enough that you’ll sell bottles, why charge at all?
I’ve had 3 experiences at well regarded wineries where the tasting fee has been collected up-front. While that pretty much clears up where you stand, it burns me more than almost any other outcome. Do I look shifty and high-risk for running out on the fee while their back is turned?!
I agree with those above who don’t mind paying the fee (despite having made a purchase) if there’s something special involved; a library wine, one-on-one attention, etc.
And I can grudgingly forgive circumstances where nothing special is involved, but the portfolio of wines tasted is generous, I only buy a bottle or two, and the fee isn’t waived.
But if I have to stand 3 deep at the counter, receive minimal attention, make a sizable purchase, and still get charged the fee…they won’t be seeing me again, ever.
As for the right $ amount. For a standard walk-in tasting room with a moderate number of typically priced wines (don’t ask me to put specific numbers on all that), I think $10 is the max. For more specialized wine or experiences- $25 at the top-end.
Perspective from an easy mark…
I’ve paid 3 tasting fees during my last five or so visits to Napa/Sonoma. I would venture a guess that I’ve purchased at least a six pack in the tasting room from 90% of the wineries who waived the tasting fees (I’m an easy sell). Also, I did not purchase anything from the three where I paid for the tasting. I was in no way peeved at the fee, rather, I simply did not feel the obligation to show my appreciation in any further manner, i.e., buying wines.
Please charge me a fee.
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That is a valid question.
I worked at a tasting room that had a $5 tasting fee (not collected up front), poured about 6-8 wines, and refunded the $5 after purchase. I would guess that I actually collected the fee 5% of the time. I would do the same for a $10 or $20 tasting, too. So I hope in this thread I am not being interpreted as pro-collecting-tasting fees. I just like the structure it provides in keeping a busy tasting room in line. No tasting fee, some people keep asking for more (which leads to Chad’s mention of tasting bars becoming 3-deep, they never leave). If you even attempt to cut them off, they are drunk so they get mad and badmouth the winery.
A tasting menu, with a set price, provides a more justified (or easy to interpret) end to the tasting. When something is free, human nature leads some people to think that it is unlimited.
A small, refundable tasting fee helps weed out some of the customers that like to take advantage of the situation, and us small businesses. Not everyone uses logic nor common courtesy, especially when drinking.
In summation, I use tasting fees to enhance structure and procedure, not for revenue.
And trust me, customers that come in because they have heard of the winery, or they are all discussing the wines, or we are just getting along – no tasting fee no matter what, open up a special bottle, let the re-taste their favorites. A pet peeve of mine is the “squeaky wheel getting the grease”; the more courtesy you show, or if you are a regular customer, the more special treatment you will get… at least from me.
Refundable is always a good idea. If the juice is good, I’m buying. Last fall I paid $25 at Terra Valentine. The fee was applied to your purchase, and nobody walked out empty handed. ![[wink.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/04707e6a7bbb03e0153e349d8a9270d30e1e9525.gif "wink"){kind=small}
Lets face it. Most of us here aren’t walking in to any old place on Route 29. We’ve done our research. I don’t mind paying if I can anticipate tasting something good.
My last trips to wine country, with a couple of exceptions, has been to board member wineries. It’s fun meeting brother/sister Berserkers. Comped tasting are so much better than paying a fee at crap wineries (just generalizing).
Because not visitor will feel the same way and if you have spent a lot of weekends in wine country, a lot of people go to tasting rooms just to party.
In a previous tasting room I worked at, we had droves of people coming in to party, chug, bachelorette, etc… A $10 refundable fee was very appropriate.
Yeah I know (read the thread)… Just to push the point, though, if every person on the bus/limo/etc buys a bottle… who cares?
I think the dynamics are very different for people on the Silverado Trail/Highway 29 in Napa and in other places. I’d imagine that Eric’s approach of collecting a tasting fee at the end wouldn’t work well in the ‘bus with drunk people partying’ environment either.
I have never walked away from a tasting room based on the tasting fee, if the charge was somewhat related to the price of the wine. I have walked away from tasting rooms because the facility was used as a free bar for the owners/winemaker’s/staff’s buddies. It’s their establishment, so I don’t tell other people how to run their business, I just don’t participant if it’s the wrong environment. Seen it in both Sonama and the WV. Last fall we went out of our way, distance wise, to visit a winery in the southern WV. A bunch of drunks were sitting at the bar being obnoxious and the staff seemed more interested in entertaining them than the other visitors . We left and drove back there the next afternoon. Same drunks in the same seats as the day before. A little conversation showed they were friends of the staff. They, the locals, were such jerks that any tasting fee was too much to pay.
So the question becomes, what is the purpose of the tasting room and what are you wanting to achieve? Tasting fees may be well down the lines of what infuences vistiors!
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You are right. Sometimes people leave without paying because I don’t enforce the tasting fee collection adamantly. I don’t want that to be the biggest impression on people when they visit. Like I said before, it’s purpose is to help provide some sort of structure/procedure to the tasting.
If they had a great time, were loud but respectful, the last thing I want is to ruin the momentum of their visit by asking for the fees. Sometimes the limo driver will even come up and say, “What do we owe you for the group?” Usually I just say, “Don’t worry about it, I hope the group had a good time.” Most drivers will appreciate that and recommend your tasting room to their future groups, not all of which are partiers.
Tasting fee collection has to be a “feel” thing. I am sure I’ll screw it up now and again, but what angers people IMO is making the tasting fee an important part of the tasting. The less it’s mentioned, the better.
Eric,
I love your approach to how to treat people. I think, in many cases, you’re right on. But boy would I be pissed if I paid a fee and the guy down the tasting bar didn’t. The entire ‘by feel’ thing risks that. I guess I don’t see what the problem with being forthright about the fee is - “Hi, there’s a $5 fee for tasting that we will, of course, refund if you end up buying something.”
In many ways I prefer your approach and certainly your attitude - but it’s one that I think works best when it’s the winemaker/owner. When it’s a hired summer person, I can see that working less well. Just illustrates that it’s all dependent on the particulars.
Very true. It can be a delicate situation like your example above. I try my best to avoid any issues or confrontations with tasting fees. And I usually do as you stated… mention it up front and collect it later. Doesn’t always work; I don’t think there is a 100% perfect method.
Really though, it is usually easy to avoid. Tasting fees hardly ever come up after the first mention’ after all it’s about having a great time and enjoying great wine!
Eric,
One thought to be wary of with your approach is protecting yourself against charges of descrimination. I don’t think you want to (even unintentionally) be giving free tastes to white males while charging (pick your minority group).
What about a policy of first x pours free, then after that y a pour to limit the freeloaders.
The only people I discriminate against are Dallas Cowboys fans
They get to pay a premium in tasting fees, and they get a “special case special”, 12 bottles for the price of 20.
This never gets talked about much at winery association meetings. Only issue I see is sanitary. This may get looked at now after two people were killed by a wine-taster in Geyserville. (See pressdemocrat.com for info).
But my pet peeve on this: Why don’t tasters bring their own plastic spit cup instead of making it the wineries’ responsibility? That’s what I do.
Why is it the taster’s responsibility to find a plastic cup and carry it from place to place? Or have a cup for each place. Sanitary? Please, I’m not sticking my face in t he bucket, I’m spitting wine into it… The reason this isn’t done is that people feel that spitting isn’t ‘nice.’
That said, as long as I have a dump bucket for wine left in my glass, I’m fine. Another way to deal with the “I don’t want to get hammered” thing is to taste at 5-7 places max in a day and don’t feel you have to drink every taste. If I can get a bead on a wine from one sip, great… I can pour the rest. An ounce per wine per place is usually 4-6 ounces if I drink it all… which is a glass. I can handle 4-6 glasses of wine over a day with lunch in there.