As a recent transplant in Chicago, I’m pretty new to the craft beer scene. The good thing about Chicago is how quickly you can immerse yourself with the locals - Half Acre, Three Floyds, Pipeworks, Revolution, Founders, New Glarus, etc - we have a lot of great options nearby.
My fascination with beer lies firmly with the big boy DIPAs. Big flavor, big alcohol…it got me thinking about wine. I collect mostly Beaujolais, Loire, Burgundy, Jura, & German/Austrian riesling so my wine tastes tend to be on the lighter side. Beer seems to be the exact opposite. The exaggerated DIPA’s are all that I’m interested in, and I’m just curious whether or not I’ll eventually matriculate to softer, more understated beers (just like I did with wine). My girlfriend and I have gotten to the point that when we drink a “normal” IPA (like Founders All Day IPA) we’re just disinterested. Too few citrus notes, density is too light, spice notes aren’t exotic enough…
What have your experiences been?
I started collecting Californian Syrah, Washington State merlot, and moved (quickly) to less extracted options…wondering if I should expect the same type of progression here.
I’ve been drinking beer longer than wine, and my tastes in beer have “matriculated” from lighter more middle-of-the-road styles to more aggressive/big styles over the years. My preferences in wine are shifting in the opposite direction. So, pretty much the same as you. I guess that means you shouldn’t necessarily expect a “matriculation” to lighter-styled beers, although it may happen!
P.S.: Founders’ All Day is a light/wimpy IPA! Their “Centennial” IPA is their normal IPA, and there’s very little boring about it!
Strangely, I have had a different progression. I started drinking really crappy light beer. Beer was more of a way to be able to drink at a bar without spending too much money than it was something to be appreciated. I think that this youthful approach to beer tainted my view of it generally. When I started to try new beer, everything was too bitter or too hoppy. For this reason, my transition moved slowly. From crap beer to some brown beers then to basic IPAs. I was pretty happy in that range until my friends introduced me to real “craft” beer.
My first real craft beer came from a buddy in the city. He got me to try Sierra Nevada Hoptimum. Then later that night he opened a Dark Lord. These were completely eye opening. Hops became an explosion of tropical fruit and floral notes. They were not something to be feared as a bittering agent. The Dark Lord showed me that Guiness is not the only type of stout out there.
Since then, I had the same approach Matt did. I wanted bigger IPAs. Then it was IIPA. Then I would find Devil Dancer and think if double is good, tripple must be better. I still drink a ton of big IPAs, and they are some of my favorite beers. I try and bring them to wine tastings from time to time so that I can let other people have the same “wow” moment I did. I also seek out rare stouts. I think they go great after dinner. I have gotten very interested in how the stouts age and have enjoyed some vertical stout tastings recently.
So, where am I now? I may be making my “move toward Burgundy” so to speak. Although I will never give up the IPA/Stout combo, I have been seeking out more sours, lambics, gueuze, and American wild ales recently. I think that they offer an interesting expression that seems more natural than the overhopping or coffee infused stouts. I like the idea that some of the beer just sit in open tanks and catch yeast that way. I also like to see how the sours can age. They are not as in your face as the IPA and Stout but still have a strong flavor profile and good backbone.
So for me it has been: crap beer to get drunk → mild ipa/brown → giant IPA and stouts → sours.
Matt – I think we tend to like very similar things in wine but I’m on the opposite side on beer. I love wheat beers, fruit beers and sours/wilds. If I never drank another highly hopped IPA I’d be fine with that. I never really enjoyed them to begin with so I guess I haven’t evolved much from that standpoint. But my discovery and enjoyment of sours developed quickly.
Agree with the comment regarding the enjoyment of sours developing quickly. Matt, it was unfortnuate you missed sourfest. We will have to put another one together. I can see you getting really into them.
As I’ve said in other threads, I don’t think beer is linear to wine. It sounds like big IPA is what you like. You will likely want to start experimenting with other styles at some point. Founders All Day is a good example of a hoppy session beer- true to the name meant to be enjoyed all day long at a BBQ or something like that.
If you end up being drawn to styles which offer a little less body/alcohol, enjoy them. I drank a Ching Ching from Bend Brewing Co last night (Berliner Weisse 4.5 Abv) and. Hop Venom from Boneyard (DIPA 10 Abv). Enjoyed them equally.
Lots to love out there & you live in a good spot in the country to pick up great stuff.
The weird double IPA/triple-digit IBU beers always left me a bit dry but never more so than the past few years, just a wild bitterfest out there now. I have found some Stone, and truthfully some others as well, IPA machinations completely undrinkable.
One of my first days here in Chicago, Keith took me to Map Room and ordered me a Flemish sour they had. Amazing stuff, and I wish I drank more of it. I’ve been on the lookout for more and more sours, so going to a sour fest is definitely something I’d like to do.
OT but just had a tasting at Virtue cider (over in MI) that featured a Spanish style cider that is pretty sour. Pretty sure it is the one they have on tap around town at the moment.
Having drank with you many times Matt, I would think you would love sours. I personally like all styles depending on my mood and time of year. I had stopped drinking IPA’s all together over the last 3 years until the enablers here got me back into them this year. I love big Imperial Stouts and barrel aged stuff, but those I save for more special occasion type setting rather than everyday drinking.
As far as wine is concerned, I tend to like higher acid wines, and do not like over oaked/extracted/high pH etc etc., wines, although there are some of those types of wines that I can appreciate.
I think beer is similar for me too. I do not like overly sweet, and I tend not to like hop monster, although occasionally they do hit the spot. And of course, I love sours.
In both beer and wine, I think balance is key.
I don’t really see what’s “different” about this; sours are very “aggressive” style beers, imo — there’s nothing middle-of-the-road or weak about them.
I would look at sours and hops as apples and oranges.
Yes, sours can be aggressive. While I love sours, I had one in particular that was just too much. About a year and a half ago I had a sour at the Toronado (can’t remember which one) that was like drinking balsamic vinegar. It was just way too sour. A good sour is going to be balanced, as I mentioned in my last post.
Hops to me are a different beast. Bitterness perception is a flavor anosmia. Anosmias are generally used in reference to aroma, but it is something (aroma/taste) that is perceived differently by people, and this is something that is genetically determined. Bitterness perception is generally something that, if a certain gene is present, can be perceived at very low levels and is very unpleasant. So the perception of the bitterness of hops, can be very unpleasant for some people. What beer you might like can be undrinkable for another person.
Brian, I tend to agree with you that sours can be aggressive. They are by no means a style without flavors or aromatics that do not get “in your face.” I guess my move to sours hasnt been looking for a less intense beer, I have just been interested in the different style.
Intensity aside, I think that Linda makes a good point. I think that although sours and IPAs can both be aggressive/intense/whatever, the bitterness in the IPAs can be more difficult for some people when it gets to be at the top of the range.
Either way, I plan on drinking plenty of both in the near future. I have an Arctic Panzer Wolf, Sour in the Rye, and some Unicorn’s revenge waiting in the fridge for when I get home (and no I will not make it through all of those).
I don’t think more, but yes, they can be equally so. I think the huge difference is that we’re talking about aggressively sour rather than aggressively bitter, and it’s common for someone to be much more sensitive to one than the other. I know I am. I love beer as sour as it gets, and I also like a lot of acidity in food. I hate any strong sensation of bitterness, though, in beer and in food, and it seems strong to me at levels that seem much less so to a lot of other people.
Matt, with your tastes in wine I am surprised you haven’t gravitated towards the Belgian side of the beer spectrum. The Belgian yeasts (and other microbes in the Lambics) produce some of the most complex flavors from the esters and phenols spit out during the fermentation process. I love most of these including the sours.
I also like a well hopped beer, particularly ones that use the fruitier hops like Simcoe, Amarillo, Citra, Centennial, Cascade and those types. I like the piney flavored hops a lot less. I don’t mind big hop flavor but too much bitterness is no good and seems out of balance for me. The biggest turn off is the high alcohol Imperial style IPAs. Bourbon and whiskey barrel flavors in beer is another style I avoid.
I’m with Glenn…While I used to love the over-the-top beers like Arrogant Bastard & anything that was smash-your-face-in intense. I’m gravitating away from them. There still are a few that win me over. If you can find the Allagash Fluxus 2013 that is worth checking out (dark ale brewed with blood oranges). However, even the over-the-top sours (Think Drie Fonteinen “Intense Red”) can hit a point where I don’t want more than a taste. The only beers I drink more than a glass of are Guiness, Saisons, & sours.
